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Messages - Nicholsonmike

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Maryanne Devine of Gresford now
« on: Tuesday 22 July 25 21:56 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Nicholsonmike on Tuesday 22 July 25 03:12 BST (UK)
Hi Carolyn,

I don't have any problem sharing our family photos - which were passed on to me by other cousins. I will get back to you when I have put something together.
In case you are wondering what our relationship is, we are 2nd cousins once removed.
I haved traced Edward Emil Edler's (shipping) movements extensively and also the Edler Family Tree.
I see you were looking for info on Frans Edvard Edler b. 16 Dec 1814 Skeppsholm, Parish, Stockholm, Stockholm, Sweden d. abt. 1860 possibly at sea. married Maria Lovisa Stenstrφm. His father was Gustaf Edler b. 4 Apr 1788 d.31 Dec according to Gustaf Edler's death record he was found in the sea on 31 Dec 1827. I have tracked  our Edward Emils's siblings and have an extensive US branch.

Will talk more when I am free.

Michael

check this link
[[Leonard-14962|Deborah E (Leonard) Devine (abt.1816-1893)]]
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Leonard-14962

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Maryanne Devine of Gresford now
« on: Tuesday 22 July 25 03:12 BST (UK)  »
Hi Carolyn,

I don't have any problem sharing our family photos - which were passed on to me by other cousins. I will get back to you when I have put something together.
In case you are wondering what our relationship is, we are 2nd cousins once removed.
I haved traced Edward Emil Edler's (shipping) movements extensively and also the Edler Family Tree.
I see you were looking for info on Frans Edvard Edler b. 16 Dec 1814 Skeppsholm, Parish, Stockholm, Stockholm, Sweden d. abt. 1860 possibly at sea. married Maria Lovisa Stenstrφm. His father was Gustaf Edler b. 4 Apr 1788 d.31 Dec according to Gustaf Edler's death record he was found in the sea on 31 Dec 1827. I have tracked  our Edward Emils's siblings and have an extensive US branch.

Will talk more when I am free.

Michael

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Maryanne Devine of Gresford now
« on: Monday 21 July 25 22:47 BST (UK)  »
Family of Matthew DEVINE and Deborah LENNARD (Leonard)
   
   Husband:  Matthew DEVINE (1806-1889)
   Wife: Deborah LENNARD (1816-1893)
   Children:
1.   Jane DEVINE (1838-1911)
2.   Mary Ann DEVINE (1840-1918)
3.   Eliza DEVINE (1841-1868)
4.   John DEVINE (1842-1934)
5.   Matthew DEVINE (1843-1843)
6.   Sarah DEVINE (1845-1927)
7.   Harriet (Annie) DEVINE (1846-1926)
8.   Charlotte DEVINE (1848-1929)
9.   Charles DEVINE (1848-bef1856)
10.   Matthew DEVINE (1851-1932)
11.   Susan (Susanna) DEVINE (1853-1941)
12.   Thomas DEVINE (1856-1932)
13.   Edward DEVINE (1858-1940)
14.   James DEVINE (1861-1927)

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Maryanne Devine of Gresford now
« on: Monday 21 July 25 12:07 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: malal on Sunday 08 March 20 09:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol


Edvard Emil Edler is also my GGrandfather his daughter Emma Josephine is my grandmother
Hi malal,

I have provided the info re Mary Ann's first born child in previous replies but this is a copy of the text
from the Personal notice she placed in the paper for 12 months thirty five years later!

•     The Catholic Press (Sydney, NSW : 1895 - 1942) Sat 30 Jan 1897  Page 12  Advertising
“IF this should meet the eye of EDWARD JAMES CARROL, the son of John Warren Carrol, junior, your mother is alive and wishes to hear from you. This is my address:--M. EDLER, President-avenue, Kogarah, Sydney, NSW. Maiden name, Mary Devine.”

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Maryanne Devine of Gresford now
« on: Monday 21 July 25 10:14 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: poeticgardener on Monday 21 July 25 07:46 BST (UK)
Hi Nicholsonmike
Thanks for sharing the info on Mary Ann. She is my great grandmother through Charles Edler.
I was wondering if you had any photos of her or her other children? I only have one of her as quite an old woman.
Also wondering if you have any information about Mary Ann's mother Deborah beyond her arrival in Australia, marriage and death?
Thanks

Charles Edward Emil certainly lived a long life! He was a younger brother of my Great Grandmother, Mary M Devine (on Birth Registration) b. Sep 2 1869 John St, Haymarket, Sydney, NSW. She would have been known as Mary (Annie) Matilda Edler throughout her life. I have a magnificent large portrait painting of her that I remember hanging in my grandmother's (Elsie Matida Schlyder)  bedroom when I was an infant. It was as far back as I knew until I started my exhaustive research a few years ago.

I have taken several DNA tests and the results confirm that Edward Emil Edler was indeed the father of Annie despite the fact that her parents did not marry until 1871. I suspect that was to avoid the possibility of bigamy if the whereabouts of  MaryAnn's husband (James Robinson) who had deserted  her was unknown.
I do have some other photos. I have several trees online - Ancestry and MyHeritage amongst others - but my main tree is offline.
I certainly do have more details than vital records and have taken a familytreeDNA full mitochondrial test to try and trace my mother's mother's mother etc back further than Deborah Lennard. Have you taken any DNA tests?? The more of us who do it the greater the chance we have of joining the dots!
There is a very sad story regarding your Charles Edward Emil and a young lady who was madly in love with him and when he called it off she took her life in a quite horiffic way! (Trove)

Perhaps you are Carolyn Monica??
My Grandmother, Elsie Matilda Schlyder married Alexander Rosner, parents of my mother, Dorothy Rosner.
Best regards
Michael Pyne

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Maryanne Devine of Gresford now
« on: Monday 21 July 25 08:57 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Dundee on Wednesday 23 March 16 06:29 GMT (UK)
This may be Mary Ann in 1862/1863:

REFUSING TO MAINTAIN AN ILLEGITIMATE CHILD - John Carroll was summoned before the bench at West Maitland yesterday, to answer to the summons of Mary Ann Devine, who charged him with refusing to maintain his illegitimate child.  Mr. Mullen appeared for the plaintiff, and Mr. Brennan for defendant. M. A. Devine said the information was true. John Carroll is a painter and glazier, and earns £2 per week. The child was born 14th October last.  Joseph Trappell, groom to Dr. Liddell knew plaintiff, who had been in the same service.  Knew defendant, who came to the kitchen one Saturday about six months ago, and took her out for a walk. It was late when she came home - about half-past ten. She came in by herself. The case was postponed until Thursday, to allow the plaintiff time to procure some more witnesses.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18692278

REFUSING TO OBEY A MAINTENANCE ORDER - John Carroll was summoned by Mary Ann Devine, and appeared before tho bench at West Maitland, on Thursday, to answer a charge of neglecting to pay the amount of maintenance ordered by the bench some time back, towards the support of his illegitimate offspring. The arrears (23 weeks) were paid up, and the complainant did not appear.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18701559

This is probably the child:

9684/1862
DEVINE, EDWARD
Mother: MARY
Father: Not named
MAITLAND

Debra  :)

Mary Ann called herself Maria Carrol on the Birth Registration of her first born child. She mothered him for at least the first two years of his life. I think she may have been forced to put him in an orphanage by her husband, James Robertson. I guess the child grew up having been told that his mother died. It must have haunted her because she placed a personal notice in the Catholic Weekly 35 years later for an entire year, which I don't believe he saw as he was married and living in Brisbane.
Edward James Carrol (1862–1942): Married Louisa Jane Boldero.
•     The Catholic Press (Sydney, NSW : 1895 - 1942) Sat 30 Jan 1897  Page 12  Advertising
“IF this should meet the eye of EDWARD JAMES CARROL, the son of John Warren Carrol, junior, your mother is alive and wishes to hear from you. This is my address:--M. EDLER, President-avenue, Kogarah, Sydney, NSW. Maiden name, Mary Devine.”

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Maryanne Devine of Gresford now
« on: Wednesday 16 July 25 21:33 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: sarah on Wednesday 16 July 25 19:52 BST (UK)
Hi Nicholsonmike,

Your first post has been marked copyright for someone with a different names - this looks to be copyright material so it will be removed so we do not break the copyright message.

Regards

Sarah

Hi Sarah,
Thankyou for your vigilance!
I am the copyright owner and grant permission.
That is my correct name on the copyright.
Will this suffice to permit sharing this information?
Regards
Michael B. Pyne

Mary Ann Devine (subject of the report) is my maternal great great grandmother

8
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Family of Deborah Lennard
« on: Tuesday 15 July 25 02:34 BST (UK)  »
 I am interested in Deborah Lennard (Leonard) - my great (x3) grandmother b. 1816 in Tralee, County Kerry, Ireland (maybe!). Deborah Leonard, Job: Cook; Wages: £10; Age: 18; Ship: James Pattison; Arrival Date: February 11, 1836; Location: Sydney, NSW; Status: Passenger; Employed by: Mrs. J.B. Bettington; Residence: Piercefield, Hunters River, NSW, Australia. [Biog Item No. 100233363]. I have plenty of info on her after arrival in Aust. What I am seeking is names/details of parents and location along with any Sources. I note there was an Isabella Leonard on the Red Rover in 1832 but know nothing about her and any possible connection. I have been trying to get my hands on your (unavailable) book Colonial Duchesses. Here's some more notes I have on her: Deborah was baptised 8 January 1816 in Tralee, County Kerry, Ireland. Name at Baptism is given in the register as "Gobineta Leonard" - Gobinet/Gobnait is an Irish Christian name which was anglised to 'Deborah' (the Irish Saint Gobnait (Feast day 11 February) Saint Gobnait had a strong affinity with bees and the biblical name “Deborah” literally means “bee”.) Deborah's parents are stated as Michael (Michalis) Leonard and Mary (Maria) Horgan; sponsors James (Jacobus) Fitzgerald and Mary (Maria) Fitzgerald. [Source: Catholic Parish Registers NLI, Tralee, Microfilm 04269/03] Deborah emigrated from Cork, Ireland on the James Pattison, aged 18 years, leaving 31 Oct 1835 and arriving in Sydney 7 February 1836. This was one of the first London Emigration Committee voyages of Irish single women to Australia. On arrival, she was employed by Mrs J.B. Bettington as a cook at an annual wage of 10 pounds, receiving a further 12 pounds if remained for 12 months. She remained for 20 months. She married Mathew Devine on 16th October 1837 at Glendon, New South Wales, Australia, by Banns by G.K. Rusden, Chaplain, the witnesses were Helenus Scott of Glendon and Mary Rochford of Jerry's Plains. They had an estimate 15 children including the following together, born 1838-1861 at Paterson, Vacy and Gresford, NSW.

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: Maryanne Devine of Gresford now
« on: Tuesday 15 July 25 02:17 BST (UK)  »
Narrative Report: Mary Ann Devine (1840–1918)
Overview
Mary Ann Devine was born on January 25, 1840, in Muswellbrook, New South Wales, Australia. She was the second child of Matthew Devine (1806–1889) and Deborah Lennard (1816–1893. Known later by the surnames Robertson and Edler due to her marriages, she experienced legal issues, personal struggles, and multiple marriages. Mary Ann passed away on January 6, 1918, in Rockdale, Sydney, and was buried in Sutherland, New South Wales.
Marriages and Relationships
•   John Warren Carrol (c. 1862)
•   Relationship led to the birth of Edward James Carrol on October 14, 1862.
•   Pursued child maintenance cases against John in 1863 and 1864.
•   James Robertson (27 November 1863)
•   Married in Maitland, New South Wales.
•   faced difficulties as James deserted Mary Ann.
•   One child, John James Robertson (September 17, 1864 – 1865).
•   Edward Emil Edler (14 January 1871)
•   Married in Surry Hills, Sydney.
•   Seven children together.
•   Edward confirmed as father of daughter Mary Matilda, born September 2, 1869.
•   Edward passed away on June 21, 1920.
Legal Disputes
•   Involved in child maintenance cases against John Warren Carrol.
Residences
•   Lived in various places including Rocky Point Road, Kogarah; Balmain; and Rockdale.
Children Overview
•   Edward James Carrol (1862–1942): Married Louisa Jane Boldero.
•   John James Robertson (1864–1865): Died as an infant.
•   Mary Matilda Edler (1869–1942): Married George Schlyder.
•   Marie Louisa Edler (1872–1873): Died as an infant.
•   Charles Edward Emil Edler (1874–1971): Married Amelia Florence Midgley.
•   Francis Edward Augustus Edler (1876–1878): Died young.
•   Emma Josephine Edler (1878–1955): Married Paterson Frederick Stewart.
•   Mary Ann Cecilia Edler (1880–1955): Married Harold A Vaughan.
•   Ethel May Edler (1884–1967): Married George Reginald Easton.
Death and Burial
Mary Ann Devine died at the age of 77 on January 6, 1918, in Rockdale, Sydney, and was buried at Sutherland Cemetery.
This narrative captures key events and relationships in Mary Ann Devine's life, providing an account of her family history and significant moments.

© Michael B Pyne 9 Apr 2025

 * Check the following reference on Trove. She placed this personal notice for an entire year. Sadly, I don't believe Edward ever saw it.
   
•     The Catholic Press (Sydney, NSW : 1895 - 1942)
Sat 30 Jan 1897  Page 12  Advertising


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