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Wexford / Re: New member researching Joseph/William Frizell Old Ross 1709 Palatines
« on: Tuesday 30 December 25 23:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi J Gallin,
Apologies for the long delay, I didn’t receive a notification and missed your post. Many thanks for your detailed reply and for sharing the deed – it’s extremely helpful, and I agree there is clearly a close relationship between the William, Joseph, Sutton and surveying Frizells. There are so many branches, establishing the early connections would be really helpful.
Where I’m less convinced is on a Fraser → Frizell origin. The oral history passed down through the family was the same as yours (Frasers of Scotland). However - my mother is a direct descendant of the Old Ross Frizells, and her autosomal DNA shows a strong and consistent German/Dutch Palatine signal, with no meaningful Scottish component (and certainly nothing pointing to the Fraser/Lovat area), and no Irish Gaelic signal. While DNA isn’t definitive on its own, in this case it aligns very closely with the known Palatine settlement patterns around Old Ross and Gorey.
I also struggle with the naming logic. It’s hard to see why a Fraser would suddenly adopt Frizell as a surname, whereas the reverse – a Frizell later adopting Fraser as a middle name to signal association or status – feels more plausible. Particularly in an era of anti-German sentiment.
One deed I think is particularly significant is the one showing Frizells receiving land under Abel Ram, alongside recognised German Palatine families, which places them firmly within the Palatine framework rather than merely adjacent to it.
That said, I completely agree the surveying Frizells and the Old Ross Frizells are closely connected, and I’d be very happy to collaborate further on how these branches interlink and how names like Fraser came into use. Best wishes and thanks again
Apologies for the long delay, I didn’t receive a notification and missed your post. Many thanks for your detailed reply and for sharing the deed – it’s extremely helpful, and I agree there is clearly a close relationship between the William, Joseph, Sutton and surveying Frizells. There are so many branches, establishing the early connections would be really helpful.
Where I’m less convinced is on a Fraser → Frizell origin. The oral history passed down through the family was the same as yours (Frasers of Scotland). However - my mother is a direct descendant of the Old Ross Frizells, and her autosomal DNA shows a strong and consistent German/Dutch Palatine signal, with no meaningful Scottish component (and certainly nothing pointing to the Fraser/Lovat area), and no Irish Gaelic signal. While DNA isn’t definitive on its own, in this case it aligns very closely with the known Palatine settlement patterns around Old Ross and Gorey.
I also struggle with the naming logic. It’s hard to see why a Fraser would suddenly adopt Frizell as a surname, whereas the reverse – a Frizell later adopting Fraser as a middle name to signal association or status – feels more plausible. Particularly in an era of anti-German sentiment.
One deed I think is particularly significant is the one showing Frizells receiving land under Abel Ram, alongside recognised German Palatine families, which places them firmly within the Palatine framework rather than merely adjacent to it.
That said, I completely agree the surveying Frizells and the Old Ross Frizells are closely connected, and I’d be very happy to collaborate further on how these branches interlink and how names like Fraser came into use. Best wishes and thanks again