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Messages - Feos

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Australia / Re: Immigration - James and Esther ARTHUR with son Horatio
« on: Thursday 18 September 25 22:50 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: sparrett on Thursday 18 September 25 12:31 BST (UK)
It is disappointing you are not able to locate accurate immigration information.
I’m not much help either.
 
In an effort to track James Arthur snr., I have looked a little at James Arthur jnr.
It is all a bit hard to make sense of.

While it is quite possible he was born in NSW per his Death Certificate, it is just as likely he was not.  The informant on that DC, you will know if you have it, was not his wife Eliza because she pre-deceased him so the information may be less reliable.

So James jnr. had married ELiza WHITE in 1840 at St Pancras London and he was a cabinetmaker.
He states his father, James (snr) is dead.

Why did he state dead?

Sue

It is definitely a challenging one. I've tried looking at all the surrounding people as well. The death transcript I have 1901/9961 for James junior says he was born in Portsmouth, England.  All the other info adds up. I'm quite sure I have all the right people and have tracked them well enough but I just can't find the ship on which James and Esther Arthur (along with son Horatio) arrived in Australia (between 1835 and 1838).

I did notice that the marriage certificate for James and Eliza said the father was dead. I was sort of dismissing that because of all the other evidence (risky, I know!). I wonder how much the father and son were in contact with each other. Did he honestly think his father was dead? I wonder how much they got along with each other. Father obviously tracked down his son and brought him to Australia (Lalla Rookh).

We may never know, but thanks for your help. I'm glad to know the final resting place of James and Esther in Geelong.

Mark

2
Australia / Re: Immigration - James and Esther ARTHUR with son Horatio
« on: Thursday 18 September 25 00:18 BST (UK)  »
Arthur’s Timeline

Abt. 1800
James Arthur born
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/195861177?searchTerm=%22James%20Arthur%22

Esther Todd FHL Film Number: 1596292
Reference ID: yr 1800 p 44 were born.

1817
James married Esther Todd on 30 June at Stoke Church by Banns.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/263774201?searchTerm=%22Horatio%20Arthur%22
https://www.ancestry.com.au/search/collections/5967

James Arthur jun born NSW Death Registration Transcription 1901/9961 mentions James sen and Esther Todd.

1833/1834
Horatio born 1833  according to 1860 gaol descriptions.
https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/1783/images/40799_294164-00040?pId=337694
Horatio F. W. Arthur is Baptised in England but said to be about 14 in an 1842 assault hearing.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/263774201?searchTerm=%22Horatio%20Arthur%22

1838/3/3
“...co-partnership lately carried on between the undersigned and JAMES BROWN, as Carpenter and Cabinet Makers, has been dissolved by mutual consent by an agreement of dissolution… James Arthur”

1838/8/12
Mr Arthur arrives in Adelaide
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/233325664?searchTerm=Merope

1838/9/29
Auction and Commercial Sale Rooms, Hindley Street. J. ARTHUR [...] thanks to the public in general [...] since his return from Hobart Town…” Previous auctioneer and general merchant business was dissolved 14 Sep 1838.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/71684806?searchTerm=%22J.%20ARTHUR%22

1839/4/27
Left Adelaide for England on the Dorset aged about 40
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/195861177?searchTerm=%22James%20Arthur%22

Sells business as a general storekeeper
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/71685348?searchTerm=%22James%20Arthur%22

1840/8/11
James jun. and wife (Eliza White) arrive Adelaide on Lalla Rookh
https://bound-for-south-australia.collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/ShipLists%20Alpha%20by%20Year/1840A-D.htm

1840/11/7
James jun. purchases business from James sen.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/195861177?searchTerm=%22James%20Arthur%22

1841/1/30
J.Arthur jun. sells business to his mother E.Todd & Co. Funerals furnished and performed at reduced prices.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/195860605?searchTerm=%22James%20Arthur%22
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/71614163?searchTerm=%22James%20Arthur%22

1841/5/4
Imprisoned 18 months Adelaide Gaol as insolvent debtor
https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/62314/images/62314_b1110112-00204?pId=51888
1841/9/20
Insolvent Debtors Court examination. Confirms he was married around age 17 and is now 42. James junior is 24.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/195861177?searchTerm=%22James%20Arthur%22

1842/7/21
Mr J Arthur, wife and child leave Adelaide for Hobart on Challenger https://www.archives.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/829086/_GRG41_10_Manifest-of-shipping-departing-from-Port-Adelaide-July-1841-May-1844.pdf

1843/2/23
Mr. and Mrs. Arthur leave Adelaide for Hobart on Adelaide
https://www.archives.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/829086/_GRG41_10_Manifest-of-shipping-departing-from-Port-Adelaide-July-1841-May-1844.pdf

1845/10/16   
Mrs Arthur and Horatio Arthur leave Launceston for Sydney on William.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2947146?searchTerm=Horatio%20Arthur

1852
Horatio returns to the colony on Adventure; he is listed as a ‘cabinetmaker’ 1860.
https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/1783/images/40799_294164-00040?pId=337694

1853/9/23
“...James Arthur, the elder, and Horatio Frederick William Arthur, lately carrying on business in Melbourne, in the Colony of Victoria, and in Sydney, in the Colony of New South Wales, as merchants and ship-owners, did by indenture of release and assignment, bearing date the 17th day of September, 1853…”
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/231517709?searchTerm=%22james%20arthur%2C%20the%20elder%2C%22

1854/2/17
“Horatio W. Arthur… charged with having made use of threatening language towards his father, James…”
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/60149361?searchTerm=%22threatening%20language%22

1878
Esther Arthur nee Todd dies Registration number 5357/1878

1882
James Arthur senior dies Vic Death Register 11965 (also shown as Aitchieson James Arthur)

1901/7/16
James Arthur jun. dies. NSW Death Registration Transcription 1901/9961.

3
Australia / Re: Immigration - James and Esther ARTHUR with son Horatio
« on: Thursday 18 September 25 00:17 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: wivenhoe on Tuesday 16 September 25 23:53 BST (UK)
Can you confirm, or otherwise please -

the earliest sighting you have of James ARTHUR in the Australian colonies is 1838 -


"I know he returned to Adelaide in 1838 (possibly on the Merope) from Hobart."

Can you please give the sources of all the information you are giving the forum to work with.

"According to his testimony in 1841,"  What testimony?  What does this refer to?

What was his line of business/occupation?

Are you a direct descendant?

Hi Wivenhoe, thanks for your help. James Arthur and Esther Todd are my 5th great grandparents. I am descended from their eldest son, James Arthur junior and his daughter Amelia Matilda Arthur.

The earliest sighting is from March 1838 when he dissolves a cabinetmaking business in Adelaide before heading to Hobart. His son was baptised 26 Dec 1834 in England. Considering Adelaide was first settled in 1836 that's not a huge window for his arrival.

James was firstly a Cabinetmaker and subsequently a storekeeper/auctioneer, an owner of a shipping company (with son Horatio), possibly a wine merchant in Maitland NSW, and James junior's death cert lists his father as a butcher. 

The testimony refer to the Trove articles, see next post. Some links lead to Ancestry records.

Mark

4
Australia / Re: Immigration - James and Esther ARTHUR with son Horatio
« on: Tuesday 16 September 25 22:21 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: amondg on Tuesday 16 September 25 17:39 BST (UK)
Do you know when they returned to England?

An advert in the South Australian 5 June 1839 show JA selling his stuff in order to proceed to England on urgent business.

According to his testimony in 1841, he left  for England on the 27th April, 1839, by the Dorset. He arrived in England by the Princess Victoria. Apparently he had "an uncle in Portsmouth, who is possessed of great wealth." Then he goes on to say  "I arrived here in August,1840."

The Lalla Rookh arrived Adelaide 1840 with a James and Mrs Arthur (who I assume are the son and his wife). The other Arthurs on board are "John and wife" and another John. As per Trove:

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/195860087?searchTerm=%22lalla%20rookh%22


5
Australia / Re: Immigration - James and Esther ARTHUR with son Horatio
« on: Tuesday 16 September 25 09:42 BST (UK)  »
I was very excited until I noticed James of the Cabotia was married to a Rebecca.

The articles on Trove regarding James' insolvency are fascinating. Definitely sounds like something dodgy was going on. They returned briefly to England, departing the colony on the Dorset but arriving in England on the Princess Victoria - but I can't even find the ship on which they returned to Australia the second time.

I'm descended from James, son of James and Esther. He became a lockup keeper in Maitland.

I wonder whether any records from England would show the Arthurs emigrating.

Thanks again, everyone.
Mark

6
Australia / Re: Immigration - James and Esther ARTHUR with son Horatio
« on: Tuesday 16 September 25 05:42 BST (UK)  »
Brilliant! Thanks cupoflife.

I know there was more than one James Arthur but the fact that both James and Esther are in Geelong Eastern Cemetery is promising.

Now to figure out some new ways to search for the ship on which they arrived. They are the only 2 out of my 52 direct ancestor arrivals of which I don't know the ship!


7
Australia / Immigration - James and Esther ARTHUR with son Horatio
« on: Sunday 14 September 25 22:18 BST (UK)  »
I can't for the life of me find on which ship James ARTHUR (b.1800) and family came to Australia.

I know he returned to Adelaide in 1838 (possibly on the Merope) from Hobart. I know their other son James ARTHUR came to Adelaide in 1840 on the Lalla Rookh from London and there are plenty of mentions on Trove about their business dealings.

James ARTHUR (a carpenter/cabinetmaker) m. Esther Todd in 1817 in Hampshire.
Their second son, Horatio, was born around 1831 and baptised at Lambeth on 26 Dec 1834 and I wonder if was in preparation for emigration. I don't believe James was a convict because he was running businesses in Adelaide in 1838.

A couple of records e.g marriage to Esther Todd show his name as "Acttorson James Arthur" or "Atkinson James Arthur" and Esther's death index in Vic shows "Aitchieson James Arthur".

It appears the family moved around to TAS, VIC and Maitland in NSW. I believe James and Esther left the colony for a while but returned (from reading on Trove).

I am also unable to find any death certificate for James ARTHUR (senior).

I've been searchin A****y records and Adelaide Shipping lists, Trove, etc with no luck.

With thanks
Mark


8
Australia / Re: Ambrose EYLES - Collingwood
« on: Tuesday 09 September 25 10:25 BST (UK)  »
Sorry I'm late to the party.

Duelling pistols! I love to see photos  ;D

Chemist Ambrose and his young family appear to have continued to Port Phillip on the John Munn in October 1849 (A month after arriving in Port Adelaide) but I read on Trove that the names seem to be incorrectly transcribed as "Ryles". I don't believe there were any "Ryles" arriving in Port Adelaide on the  Munn. Elizabeth's obituary says they came to Australia on account of Ambrose's health.

I wonder whether the widowed Elizabeth Ruddle knew her 2nd husband Francis Nalder back in Wiltshire. The Pigot's directory lists the postmaster in Melksham as a Thomas Nalder.

According to trove, ...or was it facebook, Ambrose took possession of Monbulk Run (it was spelled differently back then) and he was credited with discovering the sassafras trees in Dandenong Ranges. I think there's a suburb or valley named after the trees. I've never been there.

Mark

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