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Messages - accleary

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1
Carmarthenshire / Jory/Wilson Carmarthenshire
« on: Tuesday 18 February 25 16:45 GMT (UK)  »
Hi all, wonder if you can help. I'm looking for help finding more details about a James Jory, my second great grandfather. Here is the timeline as I have it, showing where there are gaps:

- Birth around 1850, potentially Cornwall
- No findable census records, 1851-1881
- Married Harriet Wilson (born 1851 locally) in the last quarter of 1885
- Harriet gave birth to John James Jory (my great grandfather) in Pontyberem, 1886
- 1891 Wales census, Harriet Jory appears in the same household as her parents, John and Eliza Wilson, with John James (aged 4) and a second child, Richard Henry Jory, aged 1. No record of James Jory.
- Harriet dies in 1896
- 1901 Wales census - John James and Richard Henry appear to be cared for by Sarah Wilson, Harriet's sister
- 1911 Wales census - a James Jory reappears, now married to Elizabeth, as a Grocer in Carmarthen
- 1921 Wales census - same household appears
- 1926 James Jory dies, with the below obituary appearing in the Welshman. Note that John James Jory was living in London at this point...also he was known as Jack Jory by this point, so the Jack Jory listed there may be incorrect.

My confusion is this - is the James Jory, Carmarthen Grocer, the same James Jory that is in my family, and whether he is or not, where are his census records?

2
Ireland / Re: Any chance of tracing her family? Ellen Cogan
« on: Tuesday 18 February 25 16:23 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: little annie on Monday 17 February 25 23:28 GMT (UK)
Have you done a dna test ? I have goggin/ Cogans from cork

I've done a DNA test, yes (via Ancestry). The sub-regions of Ireland for me are Munster, Waterford, Ulster and Northern Ireland (i.e. the North of Ireland).

3
Wexford / Re: Cleary / Roche County Wexford
« on: Wednesday 12 February 25 21:22 GMT (UK)  »
Also there's a record of an Owen Roche Sr and Owen Roche Jr in Monaughrim in Griffith's Valuations from 1853

4
Wexford / Re: Cleary / Roche County Wexford
« on: Wednesday 12 February 25 21:21 GMT (UK)  »
Mary Bridget's siblings all (I think?) seem to have been baptised in the Carlow/Aughrim areas. So the evidence does point to the Fermoy link being a red herring, and that there were inaccuracies in the census data submitted (maybe done by someone on her behalf, maybe deliberate inaccuracies)

5
Wexford / Re: Cleary / Roche County Wexford
« on: Wednesday 12 February 25 21:00 GMT (UK)  »
Ah okay, there I was thinking that there was some kind of insider knowledge! Ok, so given the association with Wexford and the fact that her brothers were born in the Aughrim/Carlow area to Owen Roche and Bridget Hart, it would imply that this is accurate - https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633444#page/165/mode/1up - born Aughrim Lower, January 1869 to Roche and Hart.

The thing that baffles me is the US census from 1900 (where she lived at the time before moving to the UK), where her date of birth is listed as July 1870, the 1939 England and Wales Register where her date of birth is listed as 2 July 1968, and the 1911 and 1921 England censuses where her place of birth is listed as County Cork  :-\

6
Ireland / Re: Any chance of tracing her family? Ellen Cogan
« on: Wednesday 12 February 25 20:43 GMT (UK)  »
I realise that we're nearly 7 years later here...but I am also related to Ellen Cogan! She's my 2nd great grandmother.

7
Wexford / Re: Cleary / Roche County Wexford
« on: Wednesday 12 February 25 19:54 GMT (UK)  »
Hi all, long time no reply. How reliable is this site? https://www.newmp.org.uk/person/p-roche-1917/

The reason I ask is that it mentions that Owen Roche married Bridget Daly before marrying Bridget Hart. In relation to Mary Bridget Roche, as mentioned previously I had seen County Cork as her birthplace, and this birth certificate shows a Mary Roche born to Owen Roche and Bridget Daly in Fermoy - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03392/2244092.pdf - but if the newmp.org.uk site isn't reliable then I don't know whether to believe it.

8
Wexford / Re: Cleary / Roche County Wexford
« on: Sunday 17 March 24 11:11 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Wexflyer on Sunday 17 March 24 00:47 GMT (UK)
Quote from: accleary on Friday 15 March 24 09:36 GMT (UK)

Peter Cleary, born 1821 - married Isabella Linsley in North-East England (Durham I believe). Evidence for him being from Kilmore is the 1881 E&W Census listing him (Peter Clarry  ::) ) as being born in Kilmoor, Ireland. And I think I've seen Rilmore somewhere too! I've seen others on Ancestry listing a James Cleary, born 1790 in County Clare as his father, but I haven't found documentary evidence of that.

There is a Kilmore in Co. Cavan. A parish and also the name of the entire diocese.
That your Peter Cleary ended up in Durham, might suggest mining - did he have such an association? There were mines in the vicinity of Co. Cavan, which might make a Cavan origin more likely if so. Downside is he would have been born before start of parish register.

There is also a Kilmore Catholic/civil parish in Co. Mayo, on the ocean.

Kilmore, Co. Wexford - A parish with fishing village and an agricultural area. Unlikely candidate for move to Durham? No sign of his baptism in parish registers.
Kilmore, Co. Clare - just a townland.

There is an association with mining, yes, when looking at the census records from the UK and US (Lackawanna County PA is known for mining, I believe), right up to my grandfather who was a coal minor in County Durham.

I'll try to get hold of the Cleary-Linsley marriage certificate.

As for the Roche side, I'm inclined to think now that the Fermoy or Macroom angle for Mary Bridget Roche is a red herring, as the mother's surname there is Daly. Although County Cork being listed as her birthplace on the 1911 census is still interesting. Looking at the Irish birthplaces of her siblings, though, they did seem to move around a bit - Lower Aughrim, Baltinglass, Rathdrum, Kiltegan. I don't know if that was normal at the time.

9
Wexford / Re: Cleary / Roche County Wexford
« on: Saturday 16 March 24 09:39 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: heywood on Saturday 16 March 24 07:34 GMT (UK)
Well, I hope you are going to come back and let us know your thoughts on this, accleary.

This looks to be Peter Cleary.
1871- Peter ‘Clarey’ married to Isabella, living in Durham and birthplace ‘Kimoor’.
**you have to register with Family Search but it is free.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB87-121

His marriage record would give his father’s name and occupation. That detail might help.

Hi there, sorry my posts are taking a long time to be moderated - I replied on the previous page yesterday (Friday) but it's still awaiting moderation...and I imagine that by the time this one is moderated the previous one will have been!

It is tricky with the variations on spelling - Cleary, Clarry, Clary, Clarey; Roche, Roach, Roache etc.

I had made the assumption around it being Kilmore in Wexford as it's a fairly established place, and also I remember many years ago my Aunt mentioning family history oriented around a bay in the South East tip of Ireland...but my understanding also is that the name Cleary is pretty common in Co.Clare, and there is a Kilmore there too.

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