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There was a General Election in 1790 and another in 1802 and if anyone knows of the whereabouts of Bristol Poll Books for those years I would be equally grateful.

Hi,

I am researching my possible ancestor Charles Burley and I wonder if anyone can please help me to find a copy of the 1796 Bristol Poll book for the General Election of that year, as I believe Charles may well be listed in it in it.

Background:

Charles, the son of Charles Burley and Mary née Apperley, was born in the area of Berkeley, Gloucestershire in about 1742. His baptism cannot be found. He was apprenticed to 'tiler and plaisterer' William Thrall of St James', Bristol, in 1757, when his father is said to be Charles Burley, a yeoman of Berkeley. Charles junior was appointed as a burgess of Bristol in 1781, on account of him having completed his apprenticeship with William Thrall. These apprenticeship details have been kindly provided by Bristol Archives.

Charles junior married Elizabeth Cooper in Marylebone, Middlesex, in 1773.

When their son William (possibly my 4th great-grandfather) was born at the British Lying-in hospital, Holborn in 1780, Charles' settlement is given as St James', Bristol, and his trade is said to be 'tiler and plaisterer', which makes me fairly certain I have the correct father for William.

Charles voted in the 1781 Bristol election and was said to be living in Sugar Loaf Court, Bermondsey Street, Southwark, Surrey.

Charles next appears in 1784 Bristol Poll Book and is said to be living in Crucifix Lane, St John, Southwark, Surrey.

Charles seems to have achieved a settlement in St Marylebone by 1791, when an unnamed child of his and his wife Elizabeth was born and baptised at the British Lying-in Hospital, Holborn; the record states that Charles' settlement is St Marylebone.

1796 General Election

I know there was a General Election in 1796, though I am unable to find a surviving poll book for Bristol. Bristol Archives does not have one. I do know that many originals were destroyed in the early 1900's, though many contemporaneous copies were made for various reasons and copies for many other areas have survived. Can anyone please tell me if a Bristol Poll Book for 1796 has survived and if one has does anyone know where it might be found? I have searched online to no avail. It is important for me to ascertain where Charles was living in this year - if indeed he was still alive - so that I can attribute a death and burial to him, as there are a couple of possibilities that I am currently researching; it may also help me attribute a burial to his wife Elizabeth with more certainty.

Thank you for your time,

Alan.

Hi,

Background:

My ancestor, Charles Burley, born in about 1742/43 was a 'tyler and plaisterer' in Marylebone in 1780. He served his apprenticeship with William Thrall in St James, Bristol (Charles' family was from Berkeley, Gloucestershire) from 1757 and at some point afterwards moved to London, where he lived in Marylebone and then Southwark, where he is living in 1781 and 1784 when listed in the Bristol Poll Books of those years; Charles had become a burgess of Bristol in 1781 by virtue of his apprenticeship under the above-mentioned William Thrall, a tyler and plaisterer of St James, Bristol.

In the 'UK, Register of Duties Paid for Apprentices' Indentures, 1710-1811' found on Ancestry, a Charles Burley is listed as an apprentice to William Charles Diddear 'a citizen and plaisterer of London' in 1781. It seems that this is the Charles Burley named as a nephew in the 1821 will of Arabella (née Dunn) Diddear, William Charles Diddear's wife and so is not the Charles Burley in my tree, and anyway my Charles was 38 in 1781; however, my Charles had a son Charles who was born in 1775 and would have been 6 by this date and I am wondering if it might be he who was apprenticed (surely 6 was too young? I have read about London rules which state a child should ideally be aged 14 to 21 when apprenticed). The name Charles Burley and the trade of tiler and plasterer are not common and so a combination of the two linked to the date 1781, when Charles Burley, a tiler and plasterer of Southwark, Surrey, appears in the Bristol Poll Book and the year in which he is made a burgess of Bristol. I currently have a date of death of 1777 for Charles b1775, so this unlikely connection between my tree and the 1781 apprenticeship is probably simply another coincidence.

Charles Burley born in about 1742 in Berkely, Gloucestershire, and a burgess of Bristol, appears to have had problems finding settlement in Marylebone: when son William was born in the British Laying in Hospital, Holborn, in 1780, Charles' settlement was said to be St James, Bristol (his trade of plasterer convinces me I have the correct person). Two children are then born in Southwark. In 1787, Charles' wife Elizabeth is subjected to a Pauper examination at St Clement Danes, a parish close to St Marylebone and is removed back to Marylebone; husband Charles was said to be in St Bartholomew's hospital at that time and was apparently unable to support his family. A 1791 birth of an unnamed child of Charles (a plasterer) and Elizabeth Burley at The British Laying In Hospital finally gives Charles' settlement as Marylebone.

The point:

Phew. After all that and just to be sure, I researched William Charles Diddear only to discover he was an apothecary and chymist, not a plasterer (there are no other William Charles Diddears in the records anywhere): he appears in several trade directories as such (1776-1780 in Wakefield's, for example) and is said to be an apothecary in his 1787 will. I am wondering if William Charles Diddear tried to help Charles Burley to obtain a settlement by taking him on as an apprentice - even though Charles was 38 at the time - and said he (i.e. William Charles Diddear) was a master 'plaisterer' simply because that was Charles' trade. Would someone do such a thing to help another at that time? William Charles and Arabella Diddear were not of the 'stuff' from which plasterers were made; their wills show connections to the higher echelons of society and widow Arabella left thousands of pounds (possibly as much as a million in todays money) to family members. Arabella obtained the licence for the couple's 1777 marriage in her own name, something I have never seen before, the man being the 1st named on every other licence I have come across. Is this as rare as I believe? I am currently attempting to untangle Arabella's will, to place the many nieces and nephews she names (amongst them Charles Burley and his children Thomas and Mary: my Charles had a child called Mary, but then so did almost everyone!), in the hope that will allow me to put William Charles Diddear and his apothecary/plaisterer records to rest.

It could simply be the case that the entry in the apprentices' register is wrong. It seems highly likely that William Charles' Diddear's nephew Charles Burley would have been apprenticed as a chymist/apothecary, not a plaisterer - if indeed it is his nephew who appears in that record and not my Charles Burley, a plasterer hoping to find a settlement.

Oops, I rambled there in an attempt to explain the background and to explain also as to why my head is spinning. Does anyone have any thoughts? Have I missed something blindingly obvious? And where can the original apprentice indenture records be viewed?

Thanks for your time,

Al

So sorry you are feeling lonely  out there! I meant to reply the other day and was obviously sidetracked!
Worth the delay for that interesting snip from TNA though.

But have you looked at the actual image for the burial in London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812

It was 25th March 1800. Late a prisoner from the King’s bench.
Indexed on A as December!

Added, it looks as though when ‘they’ went from 1799 to 1800 they remembered to change the year in the spreadsheet but forgot to change the month,
Everyone on that page is indexed incorrectly. I’ve put in a correction for Charles.

That is a great spot - I thought there was something wrong with the dating of those records, but got sidetracked (it happens to the best of us!) and didn't go back to check. Thanks a lot.

I've just discovered that the copy wills attached to the Canterbury Prerogative records held at the National Archive were destroyed under section 6 of the 1958 Public Records Act between 1964 and 1967. So that's why I couldn't find it - but the Archive has the undigitised originals, so that's a project for a future date.

Thanks again

And then I found the attached December 1799 document at the National Archives that includes Charles Burley and HMS Squirrel, and though the dates of the May 1800 probate (where the address includes Ship and Squirrel) and December 1800 'late prisoner' burial record mentioned above do not add up, I feel there is probably a link and suspect the dates may be somehow wrong: Arrest: Dec 1799; probate May 1800; burial of 'late prisoner' Dec 1800.

The prisoner/Squirrel Charles Burley may well not be my ancestor, as he is described as a plaisterer on 3 separate records, but I am now intrigued and need to 'eliminate boatswain from my enquiries'.

Lots of readers, but no responses. Is it too hard, or too easy? Or have I posted it in the wrong place? Either way, thanks for dropping in