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Messages - M4CKA

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1
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Italian Birth Record
« on: Monday 18 March 24 21:46 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Mary,

Sorry for the delayed response I've been very busy recently. Do you know how I would be able to find names of any priests or high-ranking officials in Marsicovetere in 1878? I think it would be worth looking if there was somewhere where I could find that information. I had my father take a Y-DNA test through Family Tree DNA in 2017 but never really paid much attention to it. Now because of this brick wall, I know that it could be useful so I checked it out today and he has a match who is from Marsico Nuovo which is just 10 miles from Marsicovetere. His surname and the surname of his paternal line is Votta. I've seen a lot of Votta's in the Marsicovetere records so that could really be Giuseppe's father's surname. As for his wife Mary Rose, they married in Dublin on the 30th of May 1900. The man Mary listed as he father, Francis (Her uncle), died in 1892 so it couldn't have been a case of her mother re-marrying her uncle. Her biological mother died young in 1891 and her father re-married the year after. I forgot to mention in my last reply that although her father was from Marsicovetere, he and his brother's married in Ireland and I think what you were referring to about marrying an "Available brother" was something that happened more commonly in Italy and not Ireland, so sorry for forgetting that. So it's still a baffling situation, but I will attach an image of her parent's marriage record as you requested and also her father's other marriage record from when he re-married. Her biological mother is Mary Ellen Murphy and her Step Mother is Annie Redmond. Thank you for all your help I am truly grateful.

Joey

2
Dublin / Re: St Nicholas Church ,Catholic Marriages.
« on: Wednesday 28 February 24 23:59 GMT (UK)  »
Hello,

I've been primarily researching the Gasparro's and Savino's for 2 years now. I just wanted to leave some information here for anyone who is still interested. The Mary Rose Gaspano that Dathai mentions is Maria Rosa Gasparro. She was born 21/1/1883 at 17 Patrick Street, Dún Laoghaire. She had 3 brothers by the names of Francis, Nicholas and Prosper. Prosper died as an infant and shortly after his mother Mary Ellen Murphy died. Tara was correct, Maria Rosa's father remarried Anne Redmond in 1892. Maria's father was Anthony Gasparro born 4/5/1859 and he was one of 5 children born in Marsicovetere, Italy. He and his two older brothers by the names of Francis and Nicholas, travelled to Ireland in their teens. There are a few prison records for Francis and Nicholas which were discussed in the messages above. They formed a band called the Gasparro Brothers which they performed all across Ireland in. According to newspapers, Francis was the leader of the band. Their birth names were Francesco Gasparro (16/12/1853), Nicola Gasparro (8/10/1856) and Angeloantonio Gasparro (4/5/1859). As I mentioned, there were 5 children. Their 2 other siblings were Maria Cristina Gasparro born 2/3/1851 and Agostino Gasparro born 23/7/1862. Agostino died young in 1867, whilst Maria Cristina stayed in Marsicovetere and married Francesco Maria Ernesto Logiovine. As far as I'm aware, she had two daughters. One died as an infant (Maria Caterina Logiovine) and I don't know what happened to the other (Maria Rosa Concetta Logiovine). The Gasparro Bros were the sons of Prospero Gasparro born 4/11/1817 and Maria Rosa Briglia born January 1823. Prospero married three times and even continued to have children with his other wife in his 70s!!! So yes, technically there are more than just the 5 siblings I already mentioned. The only one I know of so far is Mariantonia Gasparro born March 1886 to Prospero Gasparro and Maria Rosa Zottarielli born 1853. I have multiple trees on multiple sites so if you need any more information just reply here or try and look for my public trees. Now onto the Savino's, The Giuseppe/Joseph Savino Dathai mentions was from the same town as his father-in-law (Marsicovetere) believe it or not and I'm guessing this influenced his marriage with Mary Rose Gasparro. He was born 15/3/1878 at Via Santa Venere, 3. His aunt Maria Rosa Savino who also immigrated to Ireland, Lived next door at Via Santa Venere, 4. He and Mary Rose Gasparro had 4 children. Francis Joseph Savino, Joseph Aloysius Savino, Vincent Bernard Savino and Michael Gerard Savino. I descend from Francis Joseph who was known as Frank, I know that the vast majority of Joseph Aloysius's descendants live in South Africa, Vincent Bernard had 3 children in his 40s and 50s and I believe his descendants live in Canada, Ireland and the UK. I'm not sure anyone knows what happened to Michael Gerard or whether he had children. I think I saw something about his descendants living in Florida and the USA but I'm not 100% sure. Most likely Vincent Bernard's children will know. Giuseppe's father was never listed on his birth certificate and there was never a marriage record for his mother. His mother was Maria Filomena Savino born 11/12/1852 and she was the daughter of Francesco Savino born abt.1813 and Violanda Fratantuono born 1815. I've seen Violanda mentioned on Roots chat on multiple different posts as "Yolanda Frantonia". I do believe Yolanda is some sort of family nickname as there are still living Savino descendants today that bear the name Yolanda. However, Frantonia is an incorrect spelling of Fratantuono. Maria Filomena had 4+ siblings, the ones I know of are Mariantonia Savino born 6/7/1839, Teresa Savino born 21/3/1843, Michele Antonio Savino born 8/6/1845 and Maria Rosa Savino born 27 Dec 1847. At first, it was very confusing because Giuseppe said that his father was a Giuseppe Savino on his marriage record. I'm still not sure why he did this but let me tell you that during the period of which he was born, fathers were not allowed to name their children after themselves in Marsicovetere. I also noticed that Mary Rose Gasparro said her uncle Francis was her father on their marriage record. I'm not sure why they both wrote the wrong father's but I guess we'll never know. I've done much more research on the Gasparro's than the Savino's as it was a lot easier but it's much more info than I had this time last year so I am very happy. I am still currently trying to find Giuseppe's father through DNA so I would urge any descendants to try and test as many people (Especially people that are of a higher generation than yourself) and maybe we will find out one day. There is absolutely no record out there that will help us find him, it's only down to DNA testing now. Hopefully, this helped someone and as I said, there is more info out there but it's on public trees of mine on various different sites so feel free to have a look and also feel free to ask questions here.

Thank You
Joey

3
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Italian Birth Record
« on: Monday 19 February 24 17:40 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Mary50 on Tuesday 23 January 24 23:39 GMT (UK)
Hi M4CKA,

For some reason I was never notified of your responses.  I would suggest that if you check marriage records after the baby was born, sometimes the couple got married.  In such cases, there should be an annotation where the groom formally declares that the child is his and then there should be a document where his name is changed to the father's last name.  Hope you have success finding the father.

Mary

Hi Mary,

I wasn't notified of your response either, but I've checked all marriage records in Marsicovetere before and after Giuseppe's birth about 10 years both ways and I didn't see Maria Filomena on any of the records which is a shame. I was wondering, could it be possible that Giuseppe Campiglia or Giuseppe Russo (the witnesses on Giuseppe's birth record) could be his father? I'm just confused because Giuseppe's wife, Mary Rose Gasparro, put her uncle as her father on their marriage record in 1900 and Giuseppe put his father as "Giuseppe Savino" and obviously "Giuseppe Savino" is not Giuseppe's father according to his birth record.

But thank you for all your help, I really appreciate it. I might try and ask one of my cousins who are 2 generations above me to take a DNA test and maybe I'll have more luck with matches, although I've never spoken to them in my life so I'm not sure how I'll pull that off.

Joey

4
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Italian Birth Record
« on: Tuesday 16 January 24 22:50 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Zefiro on Monday 15 January 24 20:02 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Mary50 on Monday 15 January 24 16:58 GMT (UK)

(sorry, I can’t  figure out the few words after the black smudge)


the whole line reads:
non parente ne affine di lei nei gradi che ostano al riconoscimento

It's a kind of standard phrase for legal purpose, I think.
Google translate: neither related nor related to her in the degrees that preclude recognition

Thank you so much for this, extremely helpful.

5
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Italian Birth Record
« on: Tuesday 16 January 24 22:49 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Mary50 on Monday 15 January 24 16:58 GMT (UK)
Here is the translation. 

The year 1878, on the 16th of March at 9:15 A.M. in the Town Office
of the Comune of Marsicovetere,  appeared Laura Masino, aged 43,
midwife, living in Marsicovetere, who declared that at 5:20 P.M. on
the 15th of the current month in the house at 3 Santa Vanese Street
from Filomena Savino, farmer, unmarried, living in Marsicovetere,
from her relationship with an unmarried man, not related to her,
(sorry, I can’t  figure out the few words after the black smudge)
was born a male child whom  she presented to me and to whom she
gives the name Giuseppe.
To the above were present the witnesses Giuseppe Campiglio, aged 40,
shepherd, and Giuseppe Russo (Ruzzo?) , aged 38, shepherd, who also
live in this Comune.

The declarer has reported the above birth because she assisted at the
birth applying her expertise, and in the place of Savino, who could not
report the birth because she is gravely ill.  This act was read to those
present who did not sign because they are (illiterate?) as they told me.

Thank you so much, this is really interesting. There is a great amount of information here. Hopefully I find his father one day.

6
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Italian Birth Record
« on: Tuesday 16 January 24 22:46 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you so much everybody for your help, Mary50 and Zefiro have kindly translated this for me.

7
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Italian Birth Record
« on: Friday 05 January 24 22:24 GMT (UK)  »
Hello,
Hoping someone can be kind enough to help me transcribe this Italian Birth record, please.

Here is the link to the image on ancestry, an error keeps occurring every time I try and upload the image as an attachment :(

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1886/images/31053_A503951-00006?pId=269831

There are three different birth records on this page (Page 6) but the one I need to transcribe is the one on the bottom right of the right-hand page (Savino Giuseppe). Happily, there is a fair bit of info there so hope that's okay.

Thank You

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