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Messages - Famer 1899

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Armed Forces / Re: Minimum Age to join the british Army in 1886 ?
« on: Sunday 28 May 23 11:47 BST (UK)  »
This is wonderful information again Andy and I love the use of the Queen's Regulations to support the concepts.

The information on pay is interesting - so a boy earns  about 6 pence a day and a new private (aged 18 ) 14 pence a day (1 shilling and twopence).

I see after two years my relative was entitled to an extra penny a day for good conduct. On another site I read an original extract from a soldier who qualified for an extra 2 pence a day for passing his 3rd class Education in 1904.

My relative does not have a 3rd Class education certificate on his service record so I am assuming (he signed his attestation papers in a strong, copperplate flourish!) his prior education was good enough for him to be deemed to have already reached that level, also, because 2 months later he gets his 2nd class Education certificate per his records.

Assuming he got two pence extra for both and then his good conduct pay of a penny 2 years later he has pushed up his pay from 6 pence to 11 pence by the age of 16! Do you think that could be correct?

I would like to ask you about 'stoppages' that you mentioned. Would these be for indiscretions, breaking of rules etc? or would they be for bona fide things? I don't know but maybe food? uniform?  bedding? I can't believe they had to pay for their own food and space in a barracks but .... maybe I'm wrong?

Many thanks
F 1899 !

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Armed Forces / Re: Minimum Age to join the british Army in 1886 ?
« on: Saturday 27 May 23 00:33 BST (UK)  »
Dear Andy, Ians and Scrimnet (and everyone else of course!)

One thing I am still not entirely clear on is the taking on of 'boys' during the 1880's

I am clear that 'boys' were taken on to effectively apprentice as buglers, drummers, musicians and tailors under very strict ratio criteria to the number of men of the line in the battalion (see the queens Regulation 1881 - earlier this thread)

However were 'other' boys also signed up for service? If so, if they could not 'bare arms' until the age of 18 and were not musicians or tailors and therefore being trained in those roles, what would they have been doing for 4 years between 14 to 18?

I would like also to ask a couple more general questions

Good conduct pay - it seems to be a rise of one penny- was that one penny a day or week?

Pay- what would the weekly pay of a boy be? and what would the weekly pay of an adult private be?

The Duke of Cornwall Light Infanry 2nd Battalion seemed to be at HOME from 1885 to 1899 (when they were sent to South Africa to fight in the Boer War). My realtive joined in Devonport which I assume was the depot of the DoCLI. Would boys have remained at the depot until they reached 18?

If they were not at the depot but HOME - then what duties would a boy or normal soldier have done at HOME when there were no wars going on (the 1880's/1890's seemed pretty quiet unless you were abroad defending the Empire. though I realise Ireland was part of HOME and was always probably something of a powder keg)

Thanks for your wisdom and ideas on any and all of this queries  :)

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Armed Forces / Re: Minimum Age to join the british Army in 1886 ?
« on: Tuesday 23 May 23 23:10 BST (UK)  »
This was my first post to the site. I was delighted when I got an email telling me I had replies to my post. So I would really like to thank Ians and AndyJ for your time, kindness and knowledge in providing me with such comprehensive answers

I write a small blog for my family on various ancestors so I am a bit of a jack on everything for the past 200 years but the master of none and certainly not this area - so brilliant thank you

Those Queen's Regulations from 1881 Andy, really 'seal the deal'.  Subsequent to posting I have found out more: Before the Childers Reforms of 1881 the 2nd Battalion of the Duke of Cornwall Light Infantry was the 46th South Devonshire Regiment of Foot - in which his father had been a colour sergeant when his service came to an end after 20 years - with an exemplary record

So his father would have had to give his permission but based on the 1881 Queen's Regulations being taken on as a tailor as a boy would have been a rare and coveted position with just one per 200 of the rank and file. So I guess some nepotism would have been at play in order to get my ancestor this position. Assuming the battalion was 1,000 soldiers this would have meant 5 boy tailors between the ages of 14 to 18 - so just one or two a year I assume?


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Armed Forces / Minimum Age to join the british Army in 1886 ?
« on: Saturday 13 May 23 11:40 BST (UK)  »
Relatively we have a great del of information on the British Army during the WW1 and there are many stories of ancestora trying to join below the minimum age of 18

My specific interest is earler than that - 1886 to be exact :D

Looking at other forum threads I note sometimes the use of the words 'enrolled' and 'enlisted' - what do these words mean in practice?

My ancestor is 'attested' as a 'boy'  in July 1886 at the age of 14 years and 7 months ! He is 4foot 10 tall and weighs 83 pounds!

He joins the Duke of Cornwallis Light Infantry 2nd Battery and his profession is given as tailor!

I do note though that on Page 3 of his service record (titled statement of the Services) it only begins from 1889 when he reaches 18

However the period of 3 years and 5 months before that is later noted and included as time in calculating his 'GC pay and pension)

What were the age joining rules? what would he have been doing as a 'boy'? He was lucky it seems because before the Boer War of 1899 (when he was 28) his service was at 'Home' which appears to be going back and forward between England and Ireland

By the time of the end of his service in 1907 he has become a 'master tailor' so given his given profession when he joined at 14 years and 7 months of tailor - might I assume he spent most of his 'boy' years learning how to 'tailor' - he wouldn't have fought or been called to fight - would he?

Thanks for your interest and knowledge

Farmer

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Armed Forces / Mountain Division Royal Garrison Army India 1899 to 1914
« on: Saturday 13 May 23 11:25 BST (UK)  »
I am hoping to tie up to anyone with knowledge on this relatively niche and seemingly neglected area of the British Army. The Royal Garrison Army were a part of the Royal Artillery, who's job was to man fixed gun (normally coastal defences). A specialised division of them were known as the Mountain Division and as you probably guessed manned fixed gun in the mountains

About 8 batteries of them (maybe 500 in a battery) would move from garrison to garrison within India (as it was) until WW1 (and after)

I am interested in anyone with knowledge of the Mountain Division and their movements within India between 1899 to 1914.

My relative did a tour of duty there for 7 years. Did they never get to go 'home' to England durign that time?

There is much talk in general of hill stations in India (Darjeeling, Shimla etc) where the British would move up to for 6 months of the year because of the 'heat' - this included its troops

But what of the Mountain division? were they permanently based in these Mountain locations? Presumably these stations/cantonments needed to be manned all year around to defend against attack from Afghanistan from the East, the Russians through the North and the Chinese (via Tibet) through the North-West. In general also they could not just be left unattended for 6 months as they would have had 'fixed gun' and accomodation that had existed from the 1840's onwards

If anyone can tell me more on the Mountain Division, their life, their movements, how to identify which battery a soldier belonged to  etc - I would be hugely grateful !!!

Thank you

Farmer

So did

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