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Messages - peterd500

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1
Sussex Lookup Requests / Re: 1851 Census - William Foord, Hastings
« on: Friday 14 June 24 09:03 BST (UK)  »
If William gained legal settlement at Battle parish through his employment there, then it might mean that he wasn't born at Battle or his parents weren't legally settled at Battle.

From a webpage that doesn't exist anymore:

Settlement Certificates and Settlement Examinations :
The Poor Law Act of 1601 had declared that every parish was responsible for its own poor. Naturally, parishes did not want to be liable for the relief of poor from another parish also, and so the concept of 'settlement' arose. Anyone 'settled' in a parish had a right to relief from it, and others did not. But people have always travelled in search of work, whether seasonal or long-term. To prevent any hindrance to this, settlement certificates were first authorised by an Act of Parliament of 1662. A settlement certificate was a document addressed by one parish or township to another. It was issued by the churchwardens and overseers of the poor to a resident of the parish who intended to live elsewhere. Its purpose was to certify that the person named in the certificate (and if appropriate, his or her dependents) was legally settled in the parish of origin. It meant that the issuing parish would receive back the named person and dependents if it became necessary to provide them with poor relief or pay for the relief of the person in the parish in which they were living. The certificate was lodged with the overseers of the new parish who retained it as an insurance. In this way, the certificates found their way into the parish chest and from there finally into the archives. Probably only a fraction of the certificates which were once issued now survive. In law, settlement for poor law purposes in a parish or township could be acquired in a number of ways. Naturally, most people acquired a settlement from their place of birth or, for women, through marriage, which gave them their husband's settlement rights. Other ways of acquiring a right of settlement were through completing an apprenticeship, renting or buying a substantial property or serving in a public office, such as churchwarden, constable, overseer of the poor, or parish clerk. Anyone who applied for relief and was not accepted as legally 'settled' in the parish or township would have their origins investigated to discover where their true place of settlement actually was. This process was known as a 'settlement examination'. This was conducted before two magistrates, who questioned the person about their life-history. The resulting document can be of great value to family historians, as it may include details of the various places where the person had lived, what employment they had at various times and information about their family.

2
Sussex Lookup Requests / Re: 1851 Census - William Foord, Hastings
« on: Friday 14 June 24 09:01 BST (UK)  »
William FOORD is in the 1851 census at Ore, indexed by Ancestry.com as William HAND.

His details are William FOORD, lodger, Widr, age 67, Sawyer, born Battle.
He's lodging in the household of William and Sarah GARSDEN. Well, it looks like GARSDEN.

Two households along we find his son Daniel FOORD age 23 lodging in the household of another son James FOORD age 35 and the latter's wife Margaret. Margaret is Margaret EATHERDEN whom James married at Ore in 1844.

William died 1867.

From his death registration:

Died 30 West Street, Hastings St Clement, William FOORD, male, 83 years, Sawyer, natural decay (certified), informant Sarah Ann VOLLER, 30 West Street Hastings, present at the death, registered 8 May 1867

Sarah Ann VOLLER is his daughter Sarah Ann FOORD baptised 1823 at Battle who in 1843 at Ore married Robert VOLLER who was baptised as Robert WARNER.  I descend from Robert's brother Richard WARNER.

His wife Sarah CRAMP died 1847 at Lennox Street Barrack Ground Hastings as follows"

Sarah FOORD, age 54, wife of William FOORD a Sawyer, Paralysis 2 years, Bronchitis 1 week, certified, informant Wm FOORD, Lennox Street Barrack Ground, Hastings, present at the death, registered 21 Apr 1847.

William FORD was 77 in the 1861 census as William CRAMP in the houseold of his son-in-law Thomas CRAMP who married William's daughter Maria FOOD.

William and family must have fallen in need of poor relief in 1825:

https://www.thekeep.info/collections/getrecord/GB179_DH_B_92_1_118
Title: Settlement examination
Date:1 9 Nov 1825
Creator: Hastings Borough Council and predecessor authorities
Repository: East Sussex Record Office
ESRO reference: DH/B/92/1 pages122-123
Level: Item
Description: William Foord of Holy Trinity Hastings: born at Battle; he has gained settlement in Battle by hiring and service at Marley Farm at 13 for the year; Sep or Oct 1824 he came to Hastings and rented a house in Holy Trinity from John Austin at 6s per week for two months; before coming to Hastings he applied for and received poor relief from Battle; wife Sarah and children William (12 years), Maria (11 years), James (10 years), Frederick (8 years), Aaron (6 years), Stephen (4 years), Moses (3 years), Ann (2 years), Joseph (9 weeks).
Creator(s): Hastings Borough Council and predecessor authorities

https://www.thekeep.info/collections/getrecord/GB179_Q_1_5_48_1826-01-12
Title: Lewes Sessions: orders relating to poor relief
Date: 12 Jan 1826
Creator: Sussex Quarter Sessions, c 1350-1914; Sussex Quarter Sessions, Eastern Division, c 1550-1914; East Sussex Quarter Sessions, 1914-1970
Repository: East Sussex Record Office
ESRO reference: QO/48/1826-01-12
Level: Item
//
FOORD William, wife Sarah; William 12, Maria 11, James 10, Frederick 8, Aaron 6, Stephen 4, Moses 3, Ann 2, Joseph 9mths; JPs order removing them from Holy Trinity, Hastings to Battle quashed, Holy Trinity to pay £4 maintenance from removal to present sessions.
//
TOMS John, Charles HARVEY, Robert NEWMAN, William READ, William BARTLETT, Harriett READ, Jane PARSONS, Robert PARSONS, Joseph CUMMINGS, William TRUSLER, Dianah BEDWELL, Catherine DAWSON, John MORLEY, Oliver DOWTON, Margaret CAMPBELL, William COGDEN, Thomas JONES, Sarah LEWRY, John POLLARD, James MURRAY, John BROWNE, James WRIGHT, George ELLIS, Thomas MITCHELL, Edward HITCHNS, George BELT, James HILLYMAN, Antonie LEMARER, John HOPKINS, Jasper WHEELER, James ELLIS, Henry HAWKINS, Daniel JENNER, Edward MILLS, George PECKHAM, George FOSTER, John WILSON, John DRISCOTT, William FOORD, convictions as rogues and vagabonds filed.

Ann age 2 above is Sarah Ann baptised at Battle in 1823.

The above reveals a child Joseph to William and Sarah, who didn't make it into the 1841 census. Joseph was baptised at Holy Trinity in 1825, abode Holy Trinity. He was buried at Battle, abode Holy Trinity, a few months after the removal was quashed. The next child Daniel baptised 1827 at Battle was born at Ore.

I am wondering if the item about a William FOORD convicted as a rogue and a vagabond is connected to the settlement examination and the removal order that was quashed. That's what happened to the family of my ancestor Richard WARNER and his wife Eliza WRIGHT and their children in 1820 when they were arrested as vagrants at Hailsham parish and sent to the House of Correction at Lewes where they underwent a settlement examination - the JPs there determined that their legal settlement under the poor laws was in fact Hailsham so that Hailsham parish had to take them back and give them poor relief!

Peter




3
We still need the old style drop line chart trees to be able to see where we are at a glance.  Literally at a glance.

They make it easier to conduct research without being lost in a sea of facts and explanations, and  are especially handy for showing a tree to a new person who would otherwise be confused by lengthy and dense explanations of families be they oral or printed which go straight over their head.   But a simple drop line chart is understood instantly..

They are also handy for quick reference for oneself tokeep your head straight regarding relationships without having to repeatedly refer back to one's database.

And they instantly show gaps in our research.

They also provide visual cues as to relationships you haven't quite realised due to the complexity of the data being dealt with.

They are also a handy index as to who you can look at in your database to find more details and explanations.


A rough working chart is extremely handy as one constructs a new tree.

What we really want is software that automatically constructs a dropline chart that fits on A3 paper and isn't too complicated to follow.  Simple is best.   Unfortunately, at the moment no one has yertcome up with software that does it automatically to our satisfaction.

So we have to make our own charts.   The problem with using software todraw charts is that it's incredibly fiddly to do.  Hand drawn is easier and very fast.  Keep a ruler handy to keep lines straight and keep plenty of whiteout/twink etc handy to make corrections as you go.  When you have finished you simply photocopy or scan the result and the white-out marks disappear!  It takes about three stabs to get a chart really good.  The first effort shows you where the problems of layout are.  The second gets much better.  If you want something much nicer then you can take your time over a final effort.

But rough charts are ok.  As long as they are easy to follow is the key.

I create hand drawn charts on A3 paper.   Not too many generations on a page because then the chart becomes too "busy' and hard to view at a glance.  Name, year of an event and location of and event is all you need.    Three generations on a page is about right.  People on the third generation can be the start of a new chart.  As a rough guide you will only get about 20 people in  a line across the chart.

Scan or photocopy the result.  You can then add to the chart if you want to make one with more explanation on it.    Then scan or photocopy that one too.  You'll end up with a very simple version and one with more details, each from the same chart you began with..

Buy an A3 clear pocket folder.  They generally have 20 pockets.  You can fot 40 charts into but putting 2 charts back to back in each pocket.  Very good for taking to show people!

When you print a scan of a chart or photopy a chart, you can make A4 copies to fit into A4 plastic pocket folders.  Very handy to take with you when conducting research away from home.

A3 is far more impressive though, and better for showing to people whose eyesight isn't so good.


4
Sussex / Re: Workhouse in Hailsham/Hellingly
« on: Saturday 02 November 19 22:44 GMT (UK)  »
Elizabeth WRIGHT's stated time in the house I think relates to the quarter to which the register record of her death applied, it doesn't mean from the time we first her recorded in the register which implies a far longer time period.

In fact I think the  date of admission for her 26 Dec 1835, the first day of the new quarter starting 26 Dec and finishing 24th Mar 1836, is actually more like a censis of inmates on that date, because there are loads of entries for the inmates on that date.  i.e.  she had entered the workhouse earlier than 26 December 1835.

5
Sussex / Re: Workhouse in Hailsham/Hellingly
« on: Saturday 02 November 19 22:38 GMT (UK)  »
Example.

Here's the burial of my ancestor Elizabeth WRIGHT need WOOD at Hailsham.

04 Jun 1836  Burial @ Hailsham parish
Elizabeth WRIGHT, 87, abode Hailsham.  Officiating Minister was R. WELCH
[ Hailsham OPR - Burials 1813-1877, East Sussex CRO ]

And this is my transcript of the entries concerning her in a workhouse register (which I think was for the old workhouse in Hailsham village, not the new one built for the Hailsham Union).

FHL Film 4427696
East Sussex Record Office
Hailsham Union Workhouse Admission and Discharge Registers
//
Image 423
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6824-X1W?i=422&cat=693328
G5/14/3 1835-1836 item 7
//
Image 426
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6824-NXC?i=425&cat=693328
Admitted 26 Dec 1835
Elizabeth WHRITE, female, age 87, number 2, Church [of England], admitted by order of the Board (of Guardians), settlement Hailsham.
Discharged 1 Jun 1836
Elizabeth WRIGHT, time in the house 9 weeks and 6 days, discharged due to death.
//
Image 427
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6824-XYF?i=426&cat=693328
Admitted 26 Dec 1835
Mary WHRITE, female, age 32, number 13, Church [of England], admitted by order of the Board (of Guardians), settlement Hailsham.
Ruth WHRITE, female, age 4, number 14, Church [of England], admitted by order of the Board (of Guardians), settlement Hailsham.
Discharged 9 Feb 1836
Mary WRIGHT, time in the house 6 weeks and 4 days, discharged Pregnant by order of Board of Guardians, behaviour good.
Ruth WRIGHT, time in the house 6 weeks and 4 days, discharged by order of Board of Guardians, behaviour good.

Mary WRIGHT was Elizabeth's daughter-in-law Mary HOLLANDS whose husband Aaron had died earlier in 1835.  Ruth is Mary's daughter.   It wasn't long after this that Mary was back in the workhouse, pregnant, where she had an illegitimate daughter Hariot.   They left the workhouse of their own accord but were back soon after and Hariot died in the workhouse  aged only 5 months.     Mary and Ruth were in and out of the workhouse like they had their own special revolving door.  Ruth was later an orphan in the workhouse and later still she had two illegitimate children born in the workhouse. 

Elizabeth's son Michael WRIGHT and his family were also in  and out of the workhouse.  Michael died there in 1850 having entered due to infirmity and son Levi died there in 1860 having entered due to illness. 

When these people were able-bodied and not illegitimately pregnant. their reason for being in the workhouse was usually "no work."

I knew that these people were poor, being of travelling stock, and that they had suffered removals following settlement examinations on some occasions, but the workhouse records have blown me away.   I have found over 100 records in the workhouse registers of the Hailsham Union pertaining to my people.

Michael tenanted a very small plot of land in the tithe applotments for Hailsham but it obviously wasn't enough to support his family when he was out of work. 

6
Sussex / Re: Workhouse in Hailsham/Hellingly
« on: Saturday 02 November 19 22:23 GMT (UK)  »


Hailsham Union Workhouse Registers
-----------------------------------------------------


Old workhouses operating before the Hailsham Union [film 4427696]

Arlington
Chiddingly
Hailsham
Heathfield
Hellingly
Hooe
Hurstmonceux
Laughton
Ninfield
Warbleton [Warbelton]
Wartling
----------------------------------------------------------
The workhouse registers observed quarter days, the days on which quarters of the year ended roughly coinciding with the two solstices and the two equinoxes. They are the days when accounts traditionally were settled, rents paid, &c.  We sometimes see all the residents of a workhouse enumerated at the start of a quarter in some workhouse registers, sort of a census of the workhouse, and on these occasions the date given is not necessarily an admission date..

Lady Day 25 March    aka Lady Tide
Midsummer 24 June
Michaelmas 29 September
Christmas 25 December

Lady Day was the old beginning of the New Year until 1752 when the beginning of the year was changed to 1st Jan. The British tax year still starts on "Old" Lady Day (6 April under the Gregorian calendar corresponded to 25 March under the Julian calendar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarter_days

The cross-quarter days are four holidays falling in between the quarter days: Candlemas (2 February), May Day (1 May), Lammas (1 August), and All Hallows (1 November).

---------------------------------------------------------

FHL Film 4427696   

G5/14/1      Item 5   Admission and Discharge Registers   1835-1836
         [Hurstmonceux ]

G5/14/2      Item 6   Admission and Discharge Registers    1836-1841
         [Hurstmonceux ]

G5/14/3      Item 7   Admission and Discharge Registers   1835-1836
         [a general register with pages for individual workhouses?]

G5/14/4      Item 8   Admission and Discharge Registers   1835-1843
         [Hailsham House]

G5/14/5      Item 9   Admission and Discharge Registers   1847-1854
         [ is this  Hailsham House]

G5/14/6      Item 10   Admission and Discharge Registers   1835-1836
         [Warbleton]

G5/14/7      Item 11   Admission and Discharge Registers   1835-1836
         [a general register with pages for individual workhouses?]

G5/14/8      Item 12   Admission and Discharge Registers   1835-1838

-----------------------------------------------------------

FHL Film 4427321   

G5/14/8    Item 1   Admission and Discharge Registers   1835-1838
G5/14/9    Item 2   Admission and Discharge Registers   1838-1840
G5/14/10   Item 3   Admission and Discharge Registers   1843-1847  [Hellingly]
         [continues on item 1 on FHL film 4427321]
-----------------------------------------------------------

FHL Film 4426953   

This film actually starts 20 Jun 1847 in the second quarter of 1847 because it is the continuation of G5/14/10 item 3 on FHL Film 4427321.  Finishes 23 Sep 1847 ]

G5/14/10   Item 1   Admission and Discharge Registers   1843-1847  [Hellingly]
                        [sic - should be 2Q 1847-23 Sep 1847)
G5/14/11   Item 2   Admission and Discharge Registers   1847-1849  [Hellingly]
G5/14/12   Item 3   Admission and Discharge Registers   1849-1851  [Hellingly]
         [ Last entry 24 Jun 1851. Register continues item 1 FHL Film 4427697]
--------------------------------------------------------------

FHL Film 4427697   

This film starts June 25 1851 (start of quarter ending at Michaelmas on 29th Sept 1851).

G5/14/13   Item 1   Admission and Discharge Registers   1851-1854
G5/14/14   Item 2   Admission and Discharge Registers   1854-1857
G5/14/15   Item 3   Admission and Discharge Registers   1857-1859
         [ Last entry 21 Sep 1859. Continues item 1 FHL Film 4427570 ]
--------------------------------------------------------------

FHL Film 4427570   

This film starts 23 Sep 1859 (start of quarter ending Xmas 1859)

G5/14/16   Item 1   Admission and Discharge Registers   1859-1862
G5/16/1      Item 2   Birth Register            1836-1869
G5/18/1      Item 3   Death Register            1836-1870
G5/18/2      Item 4   Death Register            1870-1890

      Hastings Union

HH/20/2      Item 5   Death Register            1866-1890

----------------------------------------------------------------

Peter

7
Sussex / Re: Workhouse in Hailsham/Hellingly
« on: Saturday 02 November 19 22:20 GMT (UK)  »
Go into Familysearch and click on the Catalog tab.

Do a place search typing Hailsham into the search box.

England, Sussex, Hailsham will come up as the only option,  Click it then click search.

Click on the Poorhouses link.

Then click on the Workhouse Records link.

There are five films which have been scanned.  They have key symbols by the icons but don't worry, they aren't actually locked and you don't have to go to an LDS FHC to view them, you can view them from home on your computer.  At this point, if you aren't logged in you will be prompted to log in (registration is free).

Go through this process again for any place to see what Familysearch currently has for a place.  In the time before the Familysearch website was formed we used the Locality Index on microfiche when we visited an FHC, which was the forerunner of the Catalog on the website.

You'll notice that they also have Hailsham OPR, but they are definitely locked so that you'll have to go to your nearest FHC to access the the scans there.  They aren't the original registers, they are transcriptions up to 1812.

It is best to go through the the Hailsham Union workhouse registers in the order in which the films were created, which was generally in chronological order.   There is no index to the registers and you'll be a while working through them if you have a go at all of them.  It's easy to miss entries, so don't be in a hurry.   And I hope your eyesight is good!

See my list in my next message of the films in the correct order they were made.    The old East Sussex CRO microfilm numbers (at the start of each film) are not the same as the LDS film numbers re the digital scans.


8
Sussex / Re: Workhouse in Hailsham/Hellingly
« on: Saturday 02 November 19 20:59 GMT (UK)  »
I should have added that being an orphan was another common reason for being in a workhouse. 

9
Sussex / Re: Workhouse in Hailsham/Hellingly
« on: Saturday 02 November 19 20:57 GMT (UK)  »
The Hailsham Union workhouse registers are now online at FamilySearch, and if you had people in and out of them like mine then they are a gold mine of information.

After changes to the poor laws in 1834 the Hailsham Union was formed in 1835 and the new Board of Guardians in 1835 sought tenders to build a big new workhouse at Horsebridge in Hellingly parish by the border with Hailsham parish.  It may have been built where the old Hellingly poor house was but I am unsure about that.  But it wasn't finished in an instant and the old poorhouses in the surrounding parishes didn't disappear overnight.

The idea of the law changes was that from then on poor relief was to be administered by the workhouse system, which was much tougher than the indoor and outdoor systems offered previously.

The surrounding parishes that made up the new Hailsham Union had pre-existing poorhouses and they didn't disappear straightaway, and some were used as workhouses for a time even when the big new workhouse was finished.  For example I know that in 1841 my ancestor James WRIGHT & family, who had been resident at Ore by Hastings since about 1830, were admitted to the old poor house at Hurstmonceux parish not far from Hailsham village.   I think that the old poorhouse in Hailsham village may have been in use as a workhouse into the 1850s ( I think James' mother Elizabeth died there in 1836), and these days I think I've read that it houses the local Hailsham council.  In the workhouse registers I have seen a couple of examples of persons moved from the new workhouse to one of the old ones.

Workhouses had hospital wings or infirmaries, and they weren't necessarily a bad place to be. Locals were treated better than transients. The most common reason I've seen for being in the workhouses was "no work."   They exited when they found work again. Other reasons included illegitimate pregnancy, illness, temporary or permanent disability, and infirmity.  An unstated reason, which can be inferred, is that someone went into the workhouse when they were on their way out, sort of like a hospice when no one was in a position to look after them otherwise.  The local workhouse was often all an area had in the way of a hospital-like facility.

Peter

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