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Messages - cronecat

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1
Lanarkshire / Re: Toehill/Tohill/Tochill/Toughills - Gorbals, Glasgow.
« on: Sunday 03 December 23 13:23 GMT (UK)  »
Guessing this is your ancestry tree here www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/181785160/person/222361126189/facts

Have you considered the possibility that your grandfather may have been called after his reputed father?

From your tree and the image of his birth reg in 1909, he was called Andrew McMinigle Toehill.

McMinigle is not that common (even with variants). There is this entry for example in 1911:

Andrew MCMUNIGALL, aged 22
644/7 12/ 6
Possilpark, Lanark

Maybe this entry from 1901?

Hugh McMinigal 49 carter b. Paisley, Renfrewshire
Christina McMinigal 42 b. Glasgow
Nellie McMinigal 17 chemical worker b. Glasgow
Andrew McMinigal 13 b. Glasgow

Address: 506 Dobbie's Loan, Glasgow/Milton

Just thought to mention as a possibility  :)

Monica

Hi Monica!

Yes that's my tree. Andrew McMinigal is actually the adoptive parent of Andrew (McMinigal) Toehill along with his wife Catherine (Kate) McCleary.

I've definitely considered that Andrew or one of his brothers were the biological father because of the surname being on the birth record.

My DNA hasn't come back yet so can't see any matches but fingers crossed and will def update my findings! :)

Quoting myself here because I think I found out why my grandad was named after his adoptive father.

So, one of the first records, other than birth record, that I found for my grandad was his baptism record. The address was 25 Muse Lane. At the time I noticed there was another record on the same page as my grandad's also with the address 25 Muse Lane but just kind of shrugged it off.

A few months ago, I went poking around the birth and death records of my grandad's biological cousin. The only reason I did this was because she was born and died in the same year as my grandad. Anyways, this cousin was the daughter of my grandad's biological uncle (birth mum's brother) and the address on her birth record was 25 Muse Lane, same as the address on my grandad's baptism record.

So as I was trying to connect the dots, I went back to that baptism record, looked at the other record with the address 25 Muse Lane and saw the mother's maiden name as "McMinigle" - basically this record was my grandad's adoptive father's niece. No idea how I didn't notice this before. ???

My grandad's biological uncle and the sister of his adoptive dad both lived at 25 Muse Lane at the same time. And I guess that's where his adoptive parents also lived. His adoptive parents were neighbours with his birth mum's brother. Filling in the blanks, I guess there was an agreement before the birth that they would take him which is why he was named after his adoptive father.

The answer was literally staring me in the face.

2
Lanarkshire / Re: Toehill/Tohill/Tochill/Toughills - Gorbals, Glasgow.
« on: Friday 03 February 23 08:31 GMT (UK)  »
;D See you had the same idea www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/178942014/person/242321611655/facts

Have any of the other tree owners for the other siblings to this Andrew done a DNA test to let you verify this possible connection?

Monica

So, just an update on this. I've had no connections via his adoptive family so looks like they really are his adoptive family.

I've actually managed to narrow the possible father down to two brothers (I think - very early days!) with the surname McLachlan - sons of Isabella Findlay and William McLachlan.

I also discovered that one of my biological great-grandmother's sisters had two illegitimate children in 1909 and 1910, and one had the name of the father as Joseph McLinn. I couldn't find a record of him anywhere and someone suggested if McLinn was actually short for McLaughlin (or I guess, McLachlan) and Joseph is actually one of the McLachlan brothers I'm looking into. The plot thickens.


3
Lanarkshire / Re: The "Rat Pit" model in Glasgow Muse Lane
« on: Friday 03 February 23 08:21 GMT (UK)  »
Muse Lane was the address on my grandad's baptism record in 1909.  :(

4
Down / Re: Henry James Hogg lookup
« on: Monday 23 January 23 21:20 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Cathy,

Sorry it's taken an age to reply - I ended up getting ill twice with colds. :(

Anyways, about my previous post -- I think the link I sent you to the marriage cert is your grandad's brother, yep.

I also said that your grandad's dad, Joseph probably wasn't a sibling of John Hogg but I think I might be wrong now. Sorry if this is confusing but - John (my great grandad) had a few siblings, one of them was William but William was called William Joseph at birth, so I wonder if he maybe just went by Joseph through-out his life. Obviously I can't confirm this but I do remember poking about in some Irish records and thought of the possibility.

I finally got my DNA back and have been having a look through. I did match with someone who has Joseph Hogg, Margaret Hogg and their son Hugh (born 1902) - Hugh married Ruby Kate Nutting - daughter shown as Kitty Hogg.

I haven't found any matches in Downpatrick as of yet, but will def let you know if I do.

As for my gran, she was actually born in Scotland. She was the only one of her siblings to be born here. Then her mum died around a week after her birth, and I'm not sure what happened to her dad, John - whether he died in the war or went back to NI. But I do know from the 1921 census she was living with someone I assume was her uncle.

I decided to actually do a separate tree for the Hoggs and my findings - I also decided to put your grandad on there where I think he fits - unconfirmed obviously but it's just for a visual guide.

If you have an Ancestry account, you can view the tree here: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/187670513/family/familyview?cfpid=432457388574

5
Lanarkshire / Re: Toehill/Tohill/Tochill/Toughills - Gorbals, Glasgow.
« on: Tuesday 06 December 22 11:43 GMT (UK)  »
Guessing this is your ancestry tree here www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/181785160/person/222361126189/facts

Have you considered the possibility that your grandfather may have been called after his reputed father?

From your tree and the image of his birth reg in 1909, he was called Andrew McMinigle Toehill.

McMinigle is not that common (even with variants). There is this entry for example in 1911:

Andrew MCMUNIGALL, aged 22
644/7 12/ 6
Possilpark, Lanark

Maybe this entry from 1901?

Hugh McMinigal 49 carter b. Paisley, Renfrewshire
Christina McMinigal 42 b. Glasgow
Nellie McMinigal 17 chemical worker b. Glasgow
Andrew McMinigal 13 b. Glasgow

Address: 506 Dobbie's Loan, Glasgow/Milton

Just thought to mention as a possibility  :)

Monica

Hi Monica!

Yes that's my tree. Andrew McMinigal is actually the adoptive parent of Andrew (McMinigal) Toehill along with his wife Catherine (Kate) McCleary.

I've definitely considered that Andrew or one of his brothers were the biological father because of the surname being on the birth record.

My DNA hasn't come back yet so can't see any matches but fingers crossed and will def update my findings! :)



6
Lanarkshire / Toehill/Tohill/Tochill/Toughills - Gorbals, Glasgow.
« on: Friday 02 December 22 03:50 GMT (UK)  »
Hi friends!

I'm just wondering if anyone else is researching into the Toehills (always multiple spellings, see title ::)) who were living around the Gorbals area between the late 1800s and early 1900s.

I have a decent bit of info myself but obviously would love to connect with anyone researching/related to the family.

The parents were Joseph and Bridget Toehill (formerly Shields - widowed, and her birth name was Wilson) - they married each other on the 8th June 1872. They were both from NI, around the Magherafelt and Desertmartin areas.

They had 6 kids - Joseph, George, Mary-Ann, Elizabeth, Theresa (my biological great-gran) and Louisa. In November 1909, Theresa was living at 113 Hospital Street (according to my grandfather's birth record) and in the 1911 census, she was still living there with her parents and sister, Louisa.

Theresa got married in 1914 to a Francis Meechan, they were both living at 103 Main Street, Bridgeton. Theresa died in 1953 where it seems like she had been living at 16 Sandyfaulds Street.

Basically, Theresa is my grandfathers birth mum. Only she was on his birth record, no father present and he was marked illegitimate.

I've just sent off my DNA so I'm happy to update if I find anything else through that but in the mean time I'd love to connect with anyone related to the family!

7
Down / Re: Henry James Hogg lookup
« on: Wednesday 30 November 22 21:45 GMT (UK)  »
Just an update:

I was poking around on Scotlands People this evening and found Patrick Hogg's marriage to Annie Coburn in Wigtown which is in Dumfries and Galloway. His parents listed as Joseph and Margaret Hogg (formerly McGrath)

Also today the 1921 census for Scotland was released and I think I managed to find my grandma who was living with presumably an uncle (Henry Hogg) along with his wife and family. There's also a Patrick Hogg listed, so I'm assuming this is Henry's brother. So, all in all - Henry, Patrick and John (my grans dad) are all brothers. I managed to confirm this by looking for their Irish birth records which show their parents as a John Hogg and Catherine Cole.

So, this is relevant part for you Cathy - I know you said you were wondering if Joseph and John were brothers but I can't find a Joseph Hogg born to a John Hogg and Catherine Cole, so it's looking unlikely. They may, however, have been cousins instead?

Hope this isn't too confusing!

Here's the image of Patrick's marriage record: https://imgur.com/a/yaVgk7m

8
Down / Re: Henry James Hogg lookup
« on: Sunday 27 November 22 05:59 GMT (UK)  »
Hi , so interesting, do you live in NI?

Nope, I live in Glasgow in Scotland.

I'm about to do a DNA test thingy so if anything interesting pops up about the Hoggs I'll be sure to post it here.

9
Down / Re: Henry James Hogg lookup
« on: Thursday 22 September 22 11:54 BST (UK)  »
Hello Tina , I’m researching my family too. My grandad was Hugh Hogg born 1902, siblings were , Mary Sarah, Joseph Henry, Patrick 1908 , then in 1919 twins Francis and Margaret were born. Hughs parents were Joseph and Margaret maiden name Magrath, in the 1911 census they were living in clough besides the family you talk about, I’ve been trying to find out if Joseph and John were brothers, Margaret and Sarah have the same surname too 😬

Hi Cathy.

I think that Sarah and Margaret may have been sisters. I think I've found the birth record of Margaret and her parents are the same as Sarah (McGrath - sometimes McGraw or MaGraw  ::))

If it's right, Margaret was born in 1881 to Hugh McGrath (sometimes with various different spellings) and Annie Morgan. These are the same parents as Sarah who was my great-grandma.


Here is Margaret's birth record: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02833/2038593.pdf

Here is Sarah's: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02957/2083167.pdf


I'm struggling to find Sarah and John's marriage record, and I have no idea the name of John's parents.

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