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Messages - prmt86

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1
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Counting sheep - 1537 will inventory
« on: Tuesday 17 September 24 11:09 BST (UK)  »
Thank you to everyone who replied.

I’m going with xxt = viginti as it makes the most sense. I have never seen that kind of “thinking in Latin” before on an inventory.

I now know what a caple is.

The last line is definitely pec(es) although it does look like pote! The key was the es brevigraph which was new to me, thanks for the link for that one.

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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Counting sheep - 1537 will inventory
« on: Monday 16 September 24 11:57 BST (UK)  »
I'm struggling with both the transcription and the meaning of the highlighted words on these five lines of a 1537 inventory. I have:

Item a cawe [=cow?] . . . xij s

Item a caple [or caphe? =calf?] . . . v s

Item xxt [=20 plus how many?] shepe . . . xxvi s viii d

Item in redy money . . . x d

Item xv pece [=pieces?] of pewter . . . v s


The will is from 1537.

Many thanks

3
Thank you to everyone who replied. I think I've got it thanks to your help.

I think the final word is most likely Sept (the month), but do the other entries on the page have the date written in that kind of format?

Yes it's definitely the month, the other entries in other months match the format exactly.

Quote
Could the margin note be referring to Edmund's marriage? I'd initially wondered if it was added years later (although it doesn't look as though it was), on the assumption that he was a child in 1636, but is it possible that he was actually born years earlier, and baptised and married on the same day? It would be worth trying to identify possible Dorothy Cantrells.

Yes I agree, I've started searching for Dorothy Cantrell. If Edmund was 21+ and got baptised so that he could get married, then his birth would have been before Elizabeth married and took the Lees surname. Her husband could have accepted the boy into the family hence him being established as Lees alias Jackson by the time of his baptism. It works. And now the marginal note is straightforward, it is now a simple same-day Bap et Nup for Edmund. Brilliant!

On reflection, I am fairly sure that Edmund, who was illegitimate, was baptized and married to Dorothy Cantrell on the same day, 19th September. 

Me too having been prompted to think again following your comment.

Thanks so much.

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Could that which looks like Spur be sepeliatur, or buried the 19th of September?

Thank you - I can't see it but interested to hear others' thoughts!

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The last word looks to me to be:  Cantrell

Does that mean anything?

It does indeed look like it could be Cantrell, thank you. This is not a surname I have come across before - but following a quick search, does seem to be a fairly common local surname. So could it just be Bap et nup Dore[the]ae Cantrell? If so, why would the writer add this text to a child's baptism? All other entries on the page are very clean Baps, Nups and Seps.

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I'd be very grateful for some help with the marginal text on this spurious baptism. Was there a quick marriage done too? I have:

Bap et nup _____  _____
Edmundus filius Elizabethae Lees et Francisii Jackson Spur 19 die Sept. [1636]

Elizabeth's husband had recently died. The child Edmund reached adulthood and was known as Edmund Lees alias Jackson, and judging from his mother's will, seemed to be a favourite, getting two thirds of the farm, the horse and and all the residue of the estate.


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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Twins born in lent
« on: Wednesday 12 July 23 10:17 BST (UK)  »
Thank you so much

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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Twins born in lent
« on: Wednesday 12 July 23 09:50 BST (UK)  »
I would be grateful to be put out of my misery with the four words between "Baptisatae" and "xijo die Martij" for the baptism of these twin[?] daughters of Robert Lees. The entry is for 12 March 1617/8 in Baslow, Derbyshire. Many thanks

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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Problem words in 1622 inventory
« on: Saturday 03 September 22 15:54 BST (UK)  »
It is written hung house (not huny). There’s a typical flat top to the g. The tail of a y goes in the other direction. Compare the g in hoggs (above), and the y in yarde (below).

I haven’t yet discovered what a hung house might be. There’s no valuation for it, unless it is run in with the following line?

Wow you're right.

The tail does go the wrong way for a y, which is why I originally thought it was a g. But after emeltom's suggestion of hunye, I concluded the flat top was actually a tail on the f above it and that the tail direction was just a simple mistake. But no, it is a flat top - there is another very similar example with an s elsewhere on the page (see attached).

There definitely seems to be an e on the end of the word? There are several es written in this way on the page, e.g. the e on fence later in that line.

Yes, there's no valuation for this line - it runs into the following line.


The Dialect Dictionary has a possibility:

hung house - a place where animals are kept without food the night before they are slaughtered.

https://archive.org/details/englishdialectdi03wrig/page/282/mode/2up

Good find, thank you. I agree with Bookbox though, the entry seems to be for Hunger House - however if I'm right that there is an e on the end of the word, then phonetically could that work?

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