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Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: Help with Brick Wall with DNA testing with assumed Endogamy
« on: Thursday 23 November 23 00:38 GMT (UK) »
UPDATE 2 on the first 3 Matches, the possible Endogamy & the research I have done:
Though it is not the focus of my post now that I am aware that the 3 clustered on Ancestry are likely from the paternal side, I will add a bit of info since it seems of interest to some.
I've been using initials for privacy but I feel a first name if it is common enough should suffice in the privacy of my matches.
MG, her name is Margaret(145 cM), her surname on Ancestry is her married name, she was adopted and her birth name was actually Bronwyn before she was adopted. She lives in New Zealand. She was my first curiosity as she was originally the closest DNA match my mother had.
We spoke once but she was waiting on more information about her adoption and hasn't gotten back to me. Her daughter Kristy(47 cM), also has tested now and I reached out to her as well. I still haven't heard much back.
LR, Lorraine (118 cM) I have built a tree for and spoken with but she told me "you know more than me, I couldn't tell you if any of that is accurate or not".
I have clustered all the shared matches of each of these women, as well as their shared matches shared matches. Within this cluster it jumps from the 100+ cM of Margaret, Lorraine and someone named Rachel(112cM) , no last name, no messaging option, private tree and hasn't logged on in a year and isn't on any other site down to under 50 cM, closer to 20 cM for most.
As my health has gone into decline a bit I have spent a little less time on Genealogy as I used to, but I still love it. I will say, for every DNA match my mother has, I have built a tree for them, even if I have only them to put on it. I add as many details as I can, I work hypotheses on these trees and I have multiple spreadsheets for clustering these DNA matches. I also use DNA painter for matches that are on MyHeritage and 23andMe to help find specific snps of relatives.
I would say I have done quite a bit of extensive research and organizing of my mother's DNA matches, but she truly has a much smaller amount of close DNA matches than anyone else's DNA I've worked with.
I am trying to respond as best as I can, but I tried to from my phone and it just did not have the format showing up properly so I apologize ahead of time if I am late to a reply, miss some information or do respond in an out of context type way if I try to from my phone. I cannot always get to my computer, but I will try.
Again, I appreciate the input and I do not really plan to dig deeper on these main 3 DNA matches as they are Paternal and I am focusing a bit more on Maternal right now. I do check back on these however in case they ever update their Ancestry, show up on another site, respond to a message or have a tree.
To the original post & update: I mentioned the relation of Mary Isabel Hardy being the MRCA for the DNA matches I shared, but I forgot to mention Mary Isabel Hardy was the sister to John Thomas Hardy mentioned in the main post. I believe the DNA is pointing towards a strictly paternal overlap and like I said I am waiting for more information or DNA proof to state much further as it is quite the allegation to make on someone who cannot defend themselves without enough evidence, but hopefully some of you understand what I am implying may have been the case for this endogamous relationship/offspring. I will continue to look to John Thomas Hardy's siblings' descendants for more information but at this time not many have DNA tested, so it is very much a waiting game.
I will add I have researched every single male family member I could find who was alive around the time of May's birth. There is no DNA connecting my mother or myself to the Aldworth line who Harriet married after May was born and also had another child with. John Thomas Hardy, Harriet's father, was the son of George Hardy & Susannah Hutchinson. George & Susannah had 7 children. Edward Hardy (1880-1964), Mary Isabel Hardy (married Chalinder, 1884-1957), George Hardy (1887-1894), John Thomas Hardy (1891-1957), Phyllis Hardy (married Edward Girling, 1894-1953), George William Hardy (1898-1977) and Robert Hardy (1901-1965).
I am working on building all of their lines, but have only found DNA matches through the women of these, both Mary Isabel Hardy (Chalinder) and Phyllis Hardy (Girling), sisters to John Thomas Hardy.
The Chalinder descendants seemed to match at an alarming rate higher based on the Shared cM Tool through DNA Painter by Blaine Bettinger, but the Girling descendant also is higher than expected but still falls within an "8%" chance for the known relationship.
The Girling descendant, named Mark, matches my mother at 134 cM and he is a 3C1R.
Again, I appreciate all input and hope you all uncover your mysteries you have if you have them and I do promise to try my best to update with relevant information, though it will probably be at a slower/later pace due to my health and caring for my children.
I will try to get some more work done on this and sort through it in a coherent way and report back when I find time.
Though it is not the focus of my post now that I am aware that the 3 clustered on Ancestry are likely from the paternal side, I will add a bit of info since it seems of interest to some.
I've been using initials for privacy but I feel a first name if it is common enough should suffice in the privacy of my matches.
MG, her name is Margaret(145 cM), her surname on Ancestry is her married name, she was adopted and her birth name was actually Bronwyn before she was adopted. She lives in New Zealand. She was my first curiosity as she was originally the closest DNA match my mother had.
We spoke once but she was waiting on more information about her adoption and hasn't gotten back to me. Her daughter Kristy(47 cM), also has tested now and I reached out to her as well. I still haven't heard much back.
LR, Lorraine (118 cM) I have built a tree for and spoken with but she told me "you know more than me, I couldn't tell you if any of that is accurate or not".
I have clustered all the shared matches of each of these women, as well as their shared matches shared matches. Within this cluster it jumps from the 100+ cM of Margaret, Lorraine and someone named Rachel(112cM) , no last name, no messaging option, private tree and hasn't logged on in a year and isn't on any other site down to under 50 cM, closer to 20 cM for most.
As my health has gone into decline a bit I have spent a little less time on Genealogy as I used to, but I still love it. I will say, for every DNA match my mother has, I have built a tree for them, even if I have only them to put on it. I add as many details as I can, I work hypotheses on these trees and I have multiple spreadsheets for clustering these DNA matches. I also use DNA painter for matches that are on MyHeritage and 23andMe to help find specific snps of relatives.
I would say I have done quite a bit of extensive research and organizing of my mother's DNA matches, but she truly has a much smaller amount of close DNA matches than anyone else's DNA I've worked with.
I am trying to respond as best as I can, but I tried to from my phone and it just did not have the format showing up properly so I apologize ahead of time if I am late to a reply, miss some information or do respond in an out of context type way if I try to from my phone. I cannot always get to my computer, but I will try.
Again, I appreciate the input and I do not really plan to dig deeper on these main 3 DNA matches as they are Paternal and I am focusing a bit more on Maternal right now. I do check back on these however in case they ever update their Ancestry, show up on another site, respond to a message or have a tree.
To the original post & update: I mentioned the relation of Mary Isabel Hardy being the MRCA for the DNA matches I shared, but I forgot to mention Mary Isabel Hardy was the sister to John Thomas Hardy mentioned in the main post. I believe the DNA is pointing towards a strictly paternal overlap and like I said I am waiting for more information or DNA proof to state much further as it is quite the allegation to make on someone who cannot defend themselves without enough evidence, but hopefully some of you understand what I am implying may have been the case for this endogamous relationship/offspring. I will continue to look to John Thomas Hardy's siblings' descendants for more information but at this time not many have DNA tested, so it is very much a waiting game.
I will add I have researched every single male family member I could find who was alive around the time of May's birth. There is no DNA connecting my mother or myself to the Aldworth line who Harriet married after May was born and also had another child with. John Thomas Hardy, Harriet's father, was the son of George Hardy & Susannah Hutchinson. George & Susannah had 7 children. Edward Hardy (1880-1964), Mary Isabel Hardy (married Chalinder, 1884-1957), George Hardy (1887-1894), John Thomas Hardy (1891-1957), Phyllis Hardy (married Edward Girling, 1894-1953), George William Hardy (1898-1977) and Robert Hardy (1901-1965).
I am working on building all of their lines, but have only found DNA matches through the women of these, both Mary Isabel Hardy (Chalinder) and Phyllis Hardy (Girling), sisters to John Thomas Hardy.
The Chalinder descendants seemed to match at an alarming rate higher based on the Shared cM Tool through DNA Painter by Blaine Bettinger, but the Girling descendant also is higher than expected but still falls within an "8%" chance for the known relationship.
The Girling descendant, named Mark, matches my mother at 134 cM and he is a 3C1R.
Again, I appreciate all input and hope you all uncover your mysteries you have if you have them and I do promise to try my best to update with relevant information, though it will probably be at a slower/later pace due to my health and caring for my children.
I will try to get some more work done on this and sort through it in a coherent way and report back when I find time.