1
Lancashire / Re: Brookfield Unitarian Church, Gorton - christening records?
« on: Friday 28 May 10 19:58 BST (UK) »
Thank you mshrmh and Mr. MIGKY; I will follow up your suggestions.
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2
Lancashire / Brookfield Unitarian Church, Gorton - christening records?
« on: Thursday 27 May 10 19:47 BST (UK) »
Does anyone know where the post 1881 baptism records can be found for Brookfield Unitarian Church, Gorton?
I note that Manchester Archives and Local Studies, Manchester Central Library, hold:
* Baptisms 1732-1881
* Marriages 1864-1881
* Burials 1785-1881
- but they do not seem to have anything for after that date.
It seems the church is longer there:
"The building was sold to a Housing Association and converted into retirement homes after becoming disused and derelict for a number of years"
http://www.robertsiddall.btinternet.co.uk/recent.html
Are the later records perhaps held by the Unitarian Church? (or is it that they just no longer exist?)
I would be very grateful if anyone can shed some light on this. Thanks.
I note that Manchester Archives and Local Studies, Manchester Central Library, hold:
* Baptisms 1732-1881
* Marriages 1864-1881
* Burials 1785-1881
- but they do not seem to have anything for after that date.
It seems the church is longer there:
"The building was sold to a Housing Association and converted into retirement homes after becoming disused and derelict for a number of years"
http://www.robertsiddall.btinternet.co.uk/recent.html
Are the later records perhaps held by the Unitarian Church? (or is it that they just no longer exist?)
I would be very grateful if anyone can shed some light on this. Thanks.
3
Scotland / Re: Q on marriage proclamation
« on: Sunday 24 January 10 17:39 GMT (UK) »
A Deacon within the church may be a possibility as you suggest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacon
This may also be of general interest as it deals with weavers in Perth and mentions "Deacon" in that context:
http://www.pkc.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/BA8D276E-C028-4B08-B596-690DA11B38D6/0/Newsletter26Spring2009.pdf
See also
http://www.perthweavers.bravehost.com/KirkSeats1749.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacon
Quote
...office of Deacon can be found in congregations formerly belonging to the pre-1900 Free Church of Scotland, with a "Deacons' Court" having responsibility for financial and administrative oversight of congregations.I have a feeling a Gaelic Church may have more leanings towards the Free Kirk than standard CoS, but I may be wrong. The "official" split between the churches was not until 1843, known as the Disruption.
This may also be of general interest as it deals with weavers in Perth and mentions "Deacon" in that context:
http://www.pkc.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/BA8D276E-C028-4B08-B596-690DA11B38D6/0/Newsletter26Spring2009.pdf
Quote
Peter signed up to serve as an apprentice to William Henderson, a Deacon weaver of the Incorporation, at Whitsunday (March 15th) 1782.
See also
http://www.perthweavers.bravehost.com/KirkSeats1749.html
Quote
....A List of the Weavers who pay to the building of their seat in ye Old Church
Deacon Robt Vallange
Deacon John Mar
Deacon John Robertson
Deacon John Pitcairn...
4
Scotland / Re: Q on marriage proclamation
« on: Sunday 24 January 10 11:13 GMT (UK) »Quote
In the case of the marriage I'm interested in, I assume the bride's father was a deacon in the church...what would be his role in the wedding ceremony?I think that Hugh, given that he is mentioned earlier as a weaver, is more likely to be the Deacon of a trades guild.
I would guess that he (and the elders you noted in the other marriages) were present as witnesses or perhaps as cautioners (pronounced kayshuners) at the time of the declaration by the couple of their intention to marry before the banns were read.
5
Scotland / Re: What does this mean on a marriage cert?
« on: Wednesday 05 August 09 22:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Gadjet
Kirk Session records are held in Ayrshire with digital copies available at NAS as far as I remember.
But it is more likely that any actual mention by name of the children will appear in records belonging to the Evangelical Union Church, or whatever other church they left the CoS for at the time, if christenings were recorded by them. If such records exist, and there may be none, they are likely to be held at either NAS; the online catalogue is here
http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/
- if you enter Kilmarnock and CH3 as the ref. it will give a list of non-conformist churches in the area, or perhaps there may be something held at local archives in Ayrshire (One archive centre is currently closed). The other is open:
http://www.burnsmonumentcentre.co.uk/20,21/archives_family_and_local_history/research_your_family_history/
Best wishes
Lesley
Quote
I'm thinking that the Kirk Sessions minutes might possibly have something.There may be something to indicate the family leaving the CoS(or perhaps several families leaving around the time of the Disruption in 1843)
Kirk Session records are held in Ayrshire with digital copies available at NAS as far as I remember.
But it is more likely that any actual mention by name of the children will appear in records belonging to the Evangelical Union Church, or whatever other church they left the CoS for at the time, if christenings were recorded by them. If such records exist, and there may be none, they are likely to be held at either NAS; the online catalogue is here
http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/
- if you enter Kilmarnock and CH3 as the ref. it will give a list of non-conformist churches in the area, or perhaps there may be something held at local archives in Ayrshire (One archive centre is currently closed). The other is open:
http://www.burnsmonumentcentre.co.uk/20,21/archives_family_and_local_history/research_your_family_history/
Best wishes
Lesley
6
Scotland / Re: What does this mean on a marriage cert?
« on: Wednesday 05 August 09 21:52 BST (UK) »
Hi Hazel & Gadget
Yes, that would make sense and explains why there is no sign of the earlier children in the OPRs.
Helen - it is not "a bother" at all! These are the kind of wee mysteries that make family history absorbing and interesting!
Best wishes
Lesley
Quote
It does look like non-C of Scotland and the births only appear after statutory registration
Yes, that would make sense and explains why there is no sign of the earlier children in the OPRs.
Helen - it is not "a bother" at all! These are the kind of wee mysteries that make family history absorbing and interesting!
Best wishes
Lesley
7
Scotland / Re: What does this mean on a marriage cert?
« on: Wednesday 05 August 09 16:41 BST (UK) »
Hi Gadget
The only thing I can think at the moment is that they were maybe part of a breakaway church after 1840, e.g. the Free Church. Hazel; do you have any later (post 1855) marriages for the family members in Scotland?
e.g. in the other post on this family which you mentioned:
In the first column, which church is stated?
Best wishes
Lesley
Quote
I've been on SP but can't find any baptisms for the children pre 1855. Only one showing on the IGI is the Jeanie George one.That is exactly what I have been finding, ...or not finding! It seems very odd. There are OPRs for Kilmarnock on IGI, batch C115975 covering the years 1819-1854, and listing some McMillans, but not the correct ones. No sign on SP either. Odd.
The only thing I can think at the moment is that they were maybe part of a breakaway church after 1840, e.g. the Free Church. Hazel; do you have any later (post 1855) marriages for the family members in Scotland?
e.g. in the other post on this family which you mentioned:
Quote
Margaret Thomson.... married Robert Young McMillan 4 June 1869 in Kilmarnock.
In the first column, which church is stated?
Best wishes
Lesley
8
Scotland / Re: What does this mean on a marriage cert?
« on: Wednesday 05 August 09 11:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Hazel
Sorry to ask so many questions, but where did you find the years of birth for the children? Do you have actual dates - days and months, or are they based on what you have found in census data?
Do you know where they are in the 1851 census?
Best wishes
Lelsey
Sorry to ask so many questions, but where did you find the years of birth for the children? Do you have actual dates - days and months, or are they based on what you have found in census data?
Do you know where they are in the 1851 census?
Best wishes
Lelsey
9
Scotland / Re: What does this mean on a marriage cert?
« on: Wednesday 05 August 09 10:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Hazel & Gadget
On well, that is not what I was expecting.
I still believe an "extract" is a copy of the marriage lines, written at the time of, or shortly after the event, but will obviously need to dig up some further proof from somewhere!
As a matter of interest, what are the names of the children to this couple? I'm seeing a Jeanie George McMillan on IGI who was b. 19 August in 1856 at Kilmarnock but I'd be interested to know of any earlier children.
Best wishes
Lesley
On well, that is not what I was expecting.
I still believe an "extract" is a copy of the marriage lines, written at the time of, or shortly after the event, but will obviously need to dig up some further proof from somewhere!
As a matter of interest, what are the names of the children to this couple? I'm seeing a Jeanie George McMillan on IGI who was b. 19 August in 1856 at Kilmarnock but I'd be interested to know of any earlier children.
Best wishes
Lesley