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Messages - liverpoolgenealogy

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1
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Anglesey place name
« on: Monday 26 May 25 14:30 BST (UK)  »
Thank you all for your responses! :) Both of those places aren't very far away from places I've known these particular ancestors to be. If general consensus is that it is Pentre Heilin then I'll happily take that. I have no idea with a lot of old handwriting, especially for Welsh locations!

About asking on the Anglesey board, this snippet appears in the topic I started over there about my ancestor, a kind member who was helping me posted an image asking where people thought it was, but those that helped out on that thread couldn't work it out, there were no responses to that particular reply. I don't wish to overburden Rootschatters if I can help it.  :)

Thank you all.  :)

2
Anglesey / Re: John Williams, born Llansadwrn, c. 1845
« on: Sunday 25 May 25 19:39 BST (UK)  »
Thank you for pointing this out! I'll have a look and see what I can find!  :)

3
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Anglesey place name
« on: Sunday 25 May 25 03:04 BST (UK)  »
Thank you for your response  :)

If like the link suggests there are only 3 locations in Anglesey beginning with Pent then I have to agree it is Pentrefelin, with the spelling a little different on the record, I think I can see Pentrefilhin. Wasn't sure of some of the last letters though.

Thank you.  :)

4
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Anglesey place name
« on: Sunday 25 May 25 01:10 BST (UK)  »
Can anyone work out what the groom's residence is? The bride's is Penrhyn. Any help is much appreciated.  :)

5
Anglesey / Re: John Williams, born Llansadwrn, c. 1845
« on: Saturday 24 May 25 11:03 BST (UK)  »
Posting again here for some help! I realise this thread is rather old now so whether this gets any interest or not, I'm not sure! I've managed to trace a fair amount on the Thomas side, thank you to
everyone on this thread, but having a little trouble with the Williams side.

The Hugh Williams son of Hugh and Mary nee Jones baptised 1814 is not the correct baptism for this Hugh. I followed up this family; father Hugh died in 1835 buried in Llansadwrn, in 1851 census, at the same address of Hugh's death there is a widow Mary Williams, with a unmarried son, Hugh, aged 36, which rules out this family.

I've started looking again after a bit of a break, and I can't convincingly say I have found a baptism for Hugh, but there is one that's caught my eye.

Hugh Williams, son of Hugh Williams, labourer and his wife Ann, born 10 November 1810 in Llandegfan and baptised 13 November 1810.

It caught my eye for several reasons: A) it places Hugh nearer to his wife's age. B) The middle name Ann was the middle name of Hugh's first granddaughter from his son John (Grace Ann). I haven't found anybody else called Ann in this family, and he used other female relatives names when he named his children. C) Llandegfan is where Hugh's granddaughter Grace Ann died in 1893, aged 14. Her obituary had been posted earlier in this thread. This is the only family link I have managed to establish to Llandegfan, but if this baptism is correct for Hugh, it may establish an earlier connection to the area.

Hugh didn't live long enough to record his birthplace on the 1851 census, but may well not have been Llansadwrn. Only problem is, I can't follow up on this family, I haven't been successful in locating a marriage record for Hugh and Ann, or their death records, or any census records, so don't think I can commit to this being the 100% correct baptism. I'm probably missing something simple!

Any help is always appreciated!  :)


6
Anglesey / Re: John Williams, born Llansadwrn, c. 1845
« on: Friday 17 January 25 06:18 GMT (UK)  »
Penrhyn appears to be a small hamlet (fishing village) on Cemaes Bay. It is covered by a couple of pages in the census, so maybe approx. 20 families. Grace was at an adress in Cemaes Bay when she died, so there were probably family round there. In 1841 there are a couple of Thomas families living in Penrhyn, but are they related?, and how?
Struggling to find many concrete links for the Thomas family. Perhaps this is a sister of Grace? Seems a good match, but is Anglican.

Ann Thomas, bap 13 May 1810, Llanbadrig, Anglesey, daughter of John and Elinor. (Ancestry)

Struggling to find a marriage record for John and Eleanor. Closest I could find, but again it is Anglican:
27 May 1791, Llanbadrig, Anglesey
John Thomas, Almwch and Ellen Williams, Llanbadrig.

Is it possible that some of the people living in the area in 1841 census could be descendants of John's brothers? So cousins to Grace? But not sure if I would be able to prove any connections.

7
Anglesey / Re: John Williams, born Llansadwrn, c. 1845
« on: Friday 17 January 25 04:58 GMT (UK)  »
At time of marriage in May 1842 the abodes are written on marriage record.
Grace was at Penrhyn which is on Cemaes Bay Llanbadrig
Not sure what Hugh’s abode was Pentre h??

I was also struggling with that! We know they had a connection to the Llanbadrig area, and the Llansadwrn area, I had a look for place names around there but struggled to find a fit.

8
Anglesey / Re: John Williams, born Llansadwrn, c. 1845
« on: Friday 17 January 25 04:53 GMT (UK)  »

The Thomases are at Hen-Drefor - https://historicplacenames.rcahmw.gov.uk/placenames/recordedname/40409a2d-6197-4620-b744-5b29b90df42b

Whilst John is listed as farmer, it could have been quite a small holding and he might also have been a labourer on another farm when needs required.

The "address" Hugh Williams is at is "separate dwelling house"  I'm assuming it's connected to the household listed above, which is at Pencraig. I think it suggests a small cottage or outbuilding separate to the main farmhouse, perhaps in the yard - the fact there's a collection of servants listed there would support that idea.
Thank you! Especially for the link, that's really useful!

Llansadwrn parish has the village of Llansadwrn then some smaller communities and individual named dwellings in the surrounding countryside. Ty Capel/Tyn Capel is basically Chapel House/Houses - think the building may still exist (or a successor) as  a house in a row with a very similar name was advertised for rent recently. Postcode is LL59 5SR

If you go north east from Hen Drefor on the map at the link I posted above you'll find Ucheldref (see address on Hugh Williams' baptism) and "meth. chapel"  ie methodist chapel, the Capel in the other address. They didn't move very far! this area matches the postcode

Perhaps, if this 1841 census return is in a similar area, maybe it is the correct one then? The ages and John's occupation threw me a little, as I said, but Grace's ages are quite off in some of the earlier censuses, so not necessarily a deal breaker, and of course, you provided a good explanation for John's occ.  :)

Thank you, I really appreciate your help and knowledge.  :)

9
Anglesey / Re: John Williams, born Llansadwrn, c. 1845
« on: Thursday 16 January 25 02:17 GMT (UK)  »
The term “pauper” recorded on the census was a little at the discretion of the census enumerator, I think.

Under the provisions of the Poor Law, a pauper was a person having no property or means of livelihood; a person dependent on the charity of others (whether public charity or family).
I think Grace was receiving an income of sorts, from her son once he was earning enough. This was the “annuity” recorded a couple of times – again the census enumerator’s choice.

Thank you! I hadn't known this, but that would definitely explain it.  :)

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