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Messages - CarterDockerty

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Cumberland Lookup Requests / Re: Mary McCourt, born Whitehaven ~1807
« on: Sunday 06 February 22 12:12 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks Ann!  I'm tracking them all on ancestry - the account is in the name of my husband as his last name is more distinct than mine!!  https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/164679048/person/242223607075/facts  I've got 12 McCourts on there... I just wish they'd have picked a different name every now and then!!

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Cumberland Lookup Requests / Re: Mary McCourt, born Whitehaven ~1807
« on: Tuesday 01 February 22 08:39 GMT (UK)  »
Hello there!
Thanks for clarifying the John/Thomas Unthank - I'll now add Thomas to my list as John's brother

"The 1841 census shows Mary McCourt (c1788-1859) living with sons Joseph (b c1826) and John (b c1828); in 1851 she is with son Joseph and daughter-in-law Augusta."

I have the Mary McCourt above as originally Mary Holmes, who married John Mccourt (and who I have as having at least Bridget b1811, Samuel b1819, Joseph B1825 and JohnB1827) - and also have her living with John and Joseph in 1841, and with Joseph and Augusta in 1851.  As she's 25-30 years older than John and Joseph.

"So were Mary, Samuel, Joseph and John all siblings, the children of John McCourt and Mary Holmes, or was the relationship more complicated? Baptism records might show, but they're not easily available, though it's good to know that there are some Whitehaven records on FreeReg (for which I do a bit of transcribing)."

I do think that the Mary who married Peter Maclurry (choose your spelling, that looks like a fun lot of options!) could be a sibling to Bridget, Samuel, Joseph and John. 

I found that the Cumbria Family History Society Forum was really helpful on another point I was looking at. - the Forum is where I got some help (as a free member) and a very helpful person on the forum, Petra found some details from "Nev Ramsden transcriptions of St Begh's" - which might also help. 

3
The Common Room / Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« on: Saturday 29 January 22 18:35 GMT (UK)  »
:-)  Thanks

I also communicated with the historian of Leyton Orient/Clapton Orient about 18 months ago and he confirmed that they signed a Jack Williams, so I'll go back to him and see if there's anything that they can give me that could clarify the Jack/James etc.  Perhaps there are some docs on next of kin or something that they hold.   

4
The Common Room / Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« on: Saturday 29 January 22 17:04 GMT (UK)  »
The Sunderland Echo article (1914), referencing him being sentenced to 2 months hard labour says that he had been previously convicted 3 times for a similar offence (for abandoning his wife and children) (and his wife was as much to blame as him (!).

I've attached the report I pulled from the English National Football Archive about Jack Williams and discounted.  I also have the specific games that Jack played for Bury, Clapton Orient. 


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The Common Room / Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« on: Saturday 29 January 22 16:40 GMT (UK)  »
oops. his brother Joseph was aged 8.

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The Common Room / Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« on: Saturday 29 January 22 16:39 GMT (UK)  »
In 1901 he was at 23 New Rows, Usworth Durham - so it's not unrealistic that he could have played for Hebburn Arygle.   

He was aged 18 on the census, single, working as a "coal putter - below" and was staying with his grandparents (mother's parents), with his brother Joseph (aged 8)

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The Common Room / Re: James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« on: Saturday 29 January 22 16:00 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you so much, I'm 99% sure that Jack Walter Williams isn't our James William Williams, however, here's a little more to explain why I was looking. 

When JWW married the great grandmother (1907) he referenced his profession as miner.    In the 1911 census, completed by his grandfather (his mother's father) his profession was listed as "coal miner, when at work" < which first of all had us thinking that perhaps he was a footballer and that the family didn't think this was a "real job".  But on reading the 1914 reports, when he was sentenced to 2 months for abandoning the great grandmother he was described as a "loiterer", I wonder if it was football or just talk. 

I have JWW from his birth cert as born on 15 Dec 1883 in Washington, Co. Durham - his WWI register of effects and pension details support this, with the grandmother referenced on it.    He served in the 22nd DLI battalion, the Pioneers (they dug comms trenches, laid railway lines) and then in March 1918 had to fight as infantrymen.  JWW died on 25th March 1918 and is commemorated on the Poziere memorial. 

There was no mention of a footballing ancestor until we started looking at the history, and my father in law dug out his parent's marriage certificate and noticed that when his mother, Mary Ethel Williams, referenced her father as James William Williams "Professional Footballer" (deceased.) 

I think it might be a bit beyond him to have created a pseudonym - but will try looking at Jack Walter and see if it isn't beyond the realms of possibility. 

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The Common Room / James William Williams - professional footballer... or loiterer?
« on: Saturday 29 January 22 12:36 GMT (UK)  »
I am researching my family tree and found that my husband's great grandfather apparently played for Clapton Orient and/or Bury football clubs before WWI, but I seem to have ground to a halt in identifying if he was a player for either or even if he did indeed start for them. 

His name was James William Williams, born around 1884 and he died on the Somme in 1918.  He is NOT the welsh footballer of the same name, but a North East England "sometime coal miner".  He is identified as a "Professional Footballer (Deceased)"  on the grandmother's marriage certificate, which started our search.   We found reference to his playing for Orient in a newpaper article -(Sunderland Daily Echo of 1914) unfortunately it referenced him abandoning my great-grandmother, but the clubs mentioned were Clapton Orient and Bury. 

I've tried the fan club of Orient, but Bury went into administration.

So, rather a long-winded way of asking if anyone has any ideas of finding out if he did actually play football professionally?  My father-in-law (now in his 80's) also had some football trials in his youth, so we're trying to clear this up for him.
 
Many thanks in advance for reading this, Sarah

Researching:  Williams (Gloucs, Durham), Dockerty (Durham, Co Mayo, Yorkshire), Curran (Durham, Co Monaghan), McCourt (Cumberland, Durham)

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Cumberland Lookup Requests / Re: Mary McCourt, born Whitehaven ~1807
« on: Friday 28 January 22 17:39 GMT (UK)  »
I realise its been a while since you posted this and I'm hoping you're still around on here.  I'm tracking the McCourt family tree back - Samuel McCourt and Elizabeth Unthank look to be my husbands 3 x great grand parents.  I have Elizabeth as the son of John Unthank a miner who was killed in an accident with 20 other men in 1819.  I can't get hold of the book that you reference at the moment as I'm not in the UK right now.  But wondered if we could chat and share info? 

My interest tracks back through Samuel and Elizabeth's son Gilbert McCourt - and his second wife Ann Brannon, who begat Elizabeth McCourt who married John Dockerty and then my husband's grandfather. 

I have their daughter Mary as marrying a Thomas Burney (and while married she was a witness at one of the family weddings).

Hope to be able to connect.  Cheers, Sarah

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