RootsChat.Com

Yes, Charlie, I am indeed in the US, so sadly will be no help at all getting to those documents not available online. I fear I'll likely be a bit of a disappointment as far as contributing to what you already know. You were far ahead of me when I first came across this thread and still are. I found the magazine obit for John Jones B1731 and the book describing his grave marker, so thanks for those in addition to my thanks for your answers to my questions. Your grave marker pictures were already unavailable, so I was glad you had transcribed the information from them.

I have not come across Jane Jones Browne B1793. For me, being another Jane and the age of Jane Barker Jones at her birth argue against her being a sister to my Jane, but not to the point I'd say it's impossible. I wonder if she may be in the next generation. Do you think the John Jones and Jane Barker who married in 1769 are "ours"? If so, that leaves a lot of room for yet-to-be-discovered (by me, anyway) aunts and uncles, perhaps even a previous marriage. Maybe she's the daughter of an older son of John Jones B1731?

I had wondered if Shepherd might turn up as a surname farther back. Interesting that you found a connected Shepherd! Not, as yet genealogically connected, though? Is the place where Joneses are living called "Eagle Hill" in the tithe records and in some deeds, I think, the same place called "Woodside" elsewhere? If not, can you explain the distinction better than what I've been able to figure out on my own? Rachel Barker Marks being a sister to Jane Barker Jones and Joseph their father was my interpretation, too. I don't think I've seen documents to which Rachel was a witness, and the only one I saw witnessed by Thomas Condell was the one I referenced that connected him to the Joneses and Barkers. I do recall seeing Thomas Barker's name, but I don't think I'd worked out how he was connected when I had to make myself stop because I was acting too obsessed to do anything else.

I grew up near where Jane's grandson lived and his property is still in our family. I love that I have pictures of people separated by five generations in what is recognizably the same front yard, but your Newtown Saunders roots are more impressive!

If you are adding Jane to your tree, you would probably like to have some of the source documentation I have for her. I'll try to PM you a bit more, but a marriage record is available online here:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WG49-G13Z

and the ship's passenger list when she and her children emigrated here:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K8C9-ZWB

As I mentioned, she had an additional daughter who also emigrated: Elizabeth B1805. The older girls' ages are a bit off on the passenger list. (I wonder if something was easier if they were all under 21?) Other documents indicate daughter Jane was born 1802 and Sarah in 1803. I have traced all the children to their deaths in the US, so they were out of the mix in Ireland after 1824. The only one for whom I have nothing explicitly stating a relationship is Joseph, but dates, places, business connections, etc. make me fairly confident he was Joseph Dodd Condell, so I would be alert to any Dodds who seemed connected. If that ever turns up, it could be on the Condell side, though.

Sally,
Looking back at your posts, I see, "I am a descendent of Constance Jones her father was Henry Jones .. His father was Robert p Jones ... His father Sheppard Jones and his father was I think John Jones." I believe that your John and my Jane were brother and sister. Considering how far along the rest of you were before I even knew enough to find this thread, I assumed you had already seen the deed I referenced above, but if not, do take a look. It's a good one! I hope this link will take you there directly:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-3QS7-H?i=173&cat=185720

(beginning at the bottom of the right hand page)

Charlie J,
What a delightful surprise to hear from you! I am eager to collaborate and will consider collaboration valuable even if it disproves what I thought I knew. My understanding of Irish records, place names, etc. is far from expert, so please don't be over-polite about disagreeing/correcting. That said, here is more about Jane and evidence by which I'm connecting my ancestor to yours.

In addition to the son named John Shepherd (as spelled on his grave marker), she had another named William J. with strong indication the "J." stood for Jones. Indexed marriage records list Jane Jones and Thomas Condell, married in 1801. A newspaper marriage announcement from May 1801 says Miss Jones, the daughter of John Jones, Esq. of Hacketstown, married Thomas Condell from Carnew. I'm interpreting Hacketstown and Carnew as parish names here. A tithe applotment record for Eagle Hill, Hacketstown, Carlow dated November 1823 shows Jane Condell occupying land right next to that occupied by John Jones and Shepard Jones. July 1824, Jane and 10 of her children emigrated to the USA, where her branch has remained, as far as I'm aware. I haven't found records for Thomas or one additional daughter, but they did end up here, too, and it seems reasonable to believe that Thomas was already gone in November 1823. Deed memorial 490515, Book 717, page 379, having to do with Aunt Rachel Barker Marks bequeathing land to John Jones the younger, lists Thomas Condell as a witness.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

Have you figured out exactly how the older Shepard (the one on the 1823 tithe applotment) fits in? He seems like a brother to Jane and the younger John, but I have found nothing to confirm that.

There is another witness to the deed mentioned above whose name I can't make out. Possibly another brother-in-law? Do you know anything about that?

An 1838 newspaper death announcement says, "February 21, at her son's residence, Newtown, Baltinglass, in the 99th year of her age, Mrs. John Jones, relict of the late John Jones, Esq., of Woodside, Hacketstown." Do you have anything to corroborate or contradict that being our grandmother?