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Messages - Frankie93

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Yorkshire (North Riding) / Re: Bastardy Bonds
« on: Tuesday 10 August 21 01:05 BST (UK)  »
Thank you, that is really helpful. Margaret had a son registered Q2 1853 - she named him James. When James married he noted his father as James "Berry". 

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The Common Room / Re: Multiple illegitimate children: how unusual?
« on: Friday 06 August 21 00:53 BST (UK)  »
Sad to imagine.

3
Yorkshire (North Riding) / Re: Bastardy Bonds
« on: Friday 06 August 21 00:50 BST (UK)  »
I have a copy of the Bastardy Bonds but they only start at 1852.

However, there is mention of Eleanor Croft and John Raine of Carperby miner:

Feb 1857 Eleanor Croft of Carpbery John Raine of Carperby miner.

March 1857 Eleanor Croft of Carperby John Raine of Carperby no appearance.

Eleanor Croft had 3 children before she married Chapman Dinsdale June 6th 1859 at Aysgarth:

Chapman Dinsdale 39 b Carperby lead miner son of Alexander married Ellen Croft 30 s Carlerby dau of Michael stonemason.

Henry Croft bap May 29th 1851 at Carperby buried Sept 4th 1851 at Aysgarth

John Henry Croft bap Sept 16th 1855 at Carperby

Margaret Croft born c 1857 at Carperby.

There is a John Raine born at Castle Bolton June 26th 1831 son of Joseph Raine and Edith (Horn) who married Nov 29th 1819 at Aysgarth

John Raine died Dec 9th 1900 at Mifflins Wisconsin USA
He married Susanna Anderson.

Hi Daniel - if you are able, could you check your copy and see if there is anything under mother's name Margaret BERRY or Elizabeth BERRY.  I have found Margaret had around 11 illegitimate children up to 1864. I have no idea of the father. They lived in Carperby.  It is possible that the earlier ones were born to her sister, Elizabeth (date back to 1842 so probably not in your records).

How did you get hold of your copy? I couldn't find BBs for Aysgarth parish listed in the N. Yorks Archives.

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The Common Room / Re: Multiple illegitimate children: how unusual?
« on: Thursday 05 August 21 01:05 BST (UK)  »
What options were there for a single woman of little means to support a lot of children? Before the welfare state and not including the workhouse.

My Margaret was a farm labourer. No marriage and no suspected fathers. Could the father(s) be forced to pay for their children's support - and was that likely in reality? I have heard of bastardy bonds but although I have many illegitimate children in my tree, I only found one where the father had actually been identified as financially responsible. Mostly I found illegitimate children born to one mother numbered one or occasionally two (and then they married). 11 is my all time record and I cannot imagine how Margaret could have supported this many without ever marrying.  Her father was also an ag lab. Small North Yorks rural community.  I can't find the children anywhere, no deaths, marriages or appearing within other households.

Intriguing.

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The Common Room / Re: Multiple illegitimate children: how unusual?
« on: Wednesday 04 August 21 00:41 BST (UK)  »
I'm reading The Five at the moment (Hallie Rubenfold) which is about the victims of Jack the Ripper. The first, Polly Nichols, is thought to have lived with several men not her husband - her husband lived with one of the neighbours and looked after Polly's children and one of her own. It does seem that flitting from relationship to relationship wasn't hampered by marriage to someone else and result in illegitimate children.

So in your case, Annie, there would have been income from her "job" as housekeeper or support from the man. In my case, I cannot understand how she could have managed - she was listed as labourer on a farm - although she didn't have to support all 11 at one time, at one point she had six. I wonder how she managed to survive financially.

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The Common Room / Re: Multiple illegitimate children: how unusual?
« on: Tuesday 03 August 21 12:46 BST (UK)  »
... I think I found another child, Henry b. 1838.  That would make 11 illegitimate children, and never married.

Margaret had a sister, Elizabeth, who also never married. I do wonder if the first four children were hers and not Margaret's. Again, no baptism and no GRO registration. Found on 1841 census. The first four children appear in the early censuses in the household of Margaret and Elizabeth's father, Henry Berry b. c 1796, and appear as his grandchildren. Henry b. 1838 also vanishes off the radar!


7
The Common Room / Re: Multiple illegitimate children: how unusual?
« on: Tuesday 03 August 21 00:20 BST (UK)  »
Thank you all for this input to a question I had registered in order to ask! It appears the sister of my husband's great (x3) grandfather had at least 10 illegitimate children - no suspected father on any census, absence of maiden name on GRO entries, always unmarried on census.  Unfortunately I cannot find any baptisms for any of the children. They all (but one) vanish off the radar by 1881. Cannot find clear deaths or marriages (still to look at emigration or to order birth certs to get more information).

Before I went any further I was going to ask how common this was.  Seems it was, although 10 seems to be quite a lot. Her name was Margaret Berry b. c. 1823, baptized Aysgarth N. Yorks in 1826. I cannot find her first three in GRO (Joseph c. 1842; Mary c. 1843 and Ann c. 1845). Joseph I tracked further by marriage, censuses and death. Ann must have died as Margaret had another daughter in 1864 named Ann.

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