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Messages - KatieVS1

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1
Australia / Re: Bobby Dickens, Liverpool to Australia
« on: Monday 06 February 23 10:47 GMT (UK)  »
Yes, my Australian match has two significant matches (500+) on her Dad's side. I went and met one of them in a pub in Liverpool! They knew nothing about her, and had been wondering about the match. It means we found her great grandparents. I did some sleuthing and found the grandaughter of the most likely man to be my Australian match's grandad, but unfortunately she didn't want to help. The other two brothers didn't have children that I could stalk. But all of the brothers would have been in Toxteth at exactly the right time (where my Grandma was). It's been fascinating, and it's been nice for my Australian match to learn more about her ancestors (and we can go way back), but it hasn't helped us find her actual Dad.  :(

The saddest thing, is that if 'Robert' didn't have any more children, then there will be no more DNA matches out there that could lead us to him  :(

2
Australia / Re: robert smith adopted in 1930 at liverpool.??
« on: Sunday 05 February 23 22:43 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Margaret, is this query a spin-off from my question about Robert Dickens?

Katie

3
Australia / Re: Bobby Dickens, Liverpool to Australia
« on: Sunday 05 February 23 22:40 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Ruskie on Saturday 04 February 23 01:37 GMT (UK)
That is a very sad story Katie.

852cM is substantial. If you have all six of those birth certificates, you have definitely been thorough.

The only thing I can think is that either his birth was not registered, or the name your Australian
contact gave you was incorrect (accidentally or intentionally) or he was registered under a different name. That doesn’t help you at all I’m sorry, and I’m sure you would already have considered those plus other possibilities.

It may be a case of holding out for some DNA matches.  :-\ Have you uploaded your raw data from Ancestry to other companies and Gedmatch? If not it might be worth doing so. I suggest all of you who match on that line also upload to all sites.

 I’m not sure about other sites, but My Heritage has an Autocluster tool, which groups all related matches which may be of use. Unlocking the tools incurs a fee though but only one of you would need to pay the fee to see all others who matched with you.

It is already complicated enough, but might it be possible that you and your Australian match are related through a different line? Grandmother seems the obvious one from what you say, but is it possible you are looking for an illegitimate child that she didn’t have? Could Robert be related to another family member?

I’m sure you’ve seen this:
https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4

I’m confused by it, but I’ll leave it with you.  :-\

I know, it's really sad. Especially for the Australian lady who's been looking for her Dad her whole life. Yes, we've been on GedMatch and MyHeritage, and have used the DNA Painter, which always points pretty much 100% to my Grandma being her Dad's son. The theory of the baby not being registered is an awful possibility, but it's a possibility nonetheless - for example foundling or similar.

We will persevere!!

Katie

4
Lancashire / Re: Liverpool homes for 'fallen' women 1900s
« on: Friday 03 February 23 19:55 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Valerie

This was sadly a different baby. This was a baby girl. Miraculously I found a record of the baptism on Ancestry which gave me some valuable insight into my grandma's life at this time. We don't know what happened to her between this episode of her life in 1930/31 and when she married in 1939. Other than that in between this, she had another baby boy that she must have had adopted.

Thank you for the info about the Salvation Army Tracing site. I'll definitely look that up.

Katie

5
Australia / Re: Bobby Dickens, Liverpool to Australia
« on: Friday 03 February 23 19:40 GMT (UK)  »
Hi.

There are 6 Robert Smiths born with MMN Smith between 1930 and 1939. I have all their birth certificates! I also searched using Birkenhead, Ormskirk, West Derby etc.

Yes we've joined forces with our match in Australia to try and solve this. She's sleuthing things in Australia and us here. The highest match is 852cM. My grandma did have another illegitimate child who sadly died, and on those birth and death certificates I find my grandma living in a home for unwed mothers and in a home for women with VD. She had a tough life, she was given up herself as a baby. But we weren't aware of another illegitimate baby, and she never talked about her past to my Mum (who sadly died 22 years ago).

We don't have any other shared matches with our 'cousin' in Australia. Just me, my sister and my aunt. 

My grandma was born in 1910, and she married in 1939 (when she was already pregnant with my Mum, who didn't belong to my grandad - I know, it's very complicated!).

Thank you all for having a think, it's helpful even to make sure I'm thinking logically.

Katie


6
Australia / Re: Bobby Dickens, Liverpool to Australia
« on: Thursday 02 February 23 23:16 GMT (UK)  »
Yes my grandma was from Liverpool. And yes I've been searching boy births in my grandma's maiden surname. She would have been unmarried at the time. I'm just working through them. He has to turn up! Then I'll have a birth date, then I can find the adoption, then I might find him on passenger ships etc. Needle in a haystack until then really.

7
Australia / Re: Bobby Dickens, Liverpool to Australia
« on: Thursday 02 February 23 23:06 GMT (UK)  »
Ah, I should have said, she'd told her daughter he was from Liverpool (as well as commenting on the accent). But yes, you're right, Robert Dickens could well have been an alias, which means we're looking for 'Smith' born in the thirties  ;D :D

8
Australia / Re: Bobby Dickens, Liverpool to Australia
« on: Thursday 02 February 23 23:05 GMT (UK)  »
His daughter was born in 1966. We've looked at all the immigration sites, passenger ships etc for different variations of his name (Dickens, Dickenson, Dickin etc). The British Library has helped me find all the Robert Dickens who were adopted in Liverpool during that decade, but none of them are him. I worked my way systematically through all the Robert Smith (my grandma's maiden name) birth certificates from Liverpool in that decade, none of them are him. Now I'm just getting boy Smiths with MMN Smith in the hope that one of them will be him!

We know he was my grandma's baby because of the DNA match with me, my sister and my aunt. We're looked at it every which way, but this is the only explanation due to the high match. The story about the sister Dorothy is anecdotal (via his daughter). Nothing concrete.

It is indeed a very frustrating puzzle!! Another anecdotal story was that he'd worked at a particular sheep station in Queensland - I found them and they looked in their records, and I had people from their Facebook page helping me look, but nobody had ever heard of him!

9
Australia / Re: Bobby Dickens, Liverpool to Australia
« on: Thursday 02 February 23 22:26 GMT (UK)  »
We have absolutely no idea unfortunately, that's the problem and why we're resorting to random strategies like this! Been searching for him for around 2 years.

We only know about him because I DNA matched with his daughter (who never knew him, and his name wasn't on her birth certificate). Her mother was Aboriginal, and they met in Cunnamulla in Queensland. All she was told is that her father's name was Robert Dickens, that he had a sister called Dorothy, and that he still had a Liverpool accent! Not much to go on!


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