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Messages - RONTAYLOR121

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1
England / Re: SHAW WOOD TAYLOR JOYNSON THORPE GOMERSALL KELSEY WELLS GARNER RINGROSE CARAFFA/I
« on: Wednesday 25 January 06 21:58 GMT (UK)  »
Derrick,
Thanks for all the information, I've copied it down to my computer.
I don't have enough knowledge of the families to piece it all together, I'm still working through it..
The following are details that may help you make a connection, I know that I'm repeating some of the details that you already know.

1858 Marriage certificate details:- At Lambeth 11th Sept 1858 William Long Kingsman a Bachelor, an Ivory Carver of Wood Street, Father Richard Kingsman an Ivory Carver.
W.L. Kingsman married Rosina Millicent Caraffa, a Spinster, no profession, of New Street, "Both of full age", Father Henry Caraffa a School Master. Witnesses Elizabeth Powell, I can't read the other one, something like "?. L. Ga???ler or Go???ler".

1859 Rosina Millicent Kingsman had a daughter Rosina Emma Kingsman born 26 May 1859 at 2 Manor Place, Walworth, Father William Long Kingsman (Ivory Carver), Mother Rosina Millicent Kingsman formerly Caraffa.

1861 Rosina Millicent Kingsman's husband W.L. Kingsman died in 1861, Death certificate details
Registration District Newington in the Sub-district of Saint Mary in the County of Surrey
William Long Kingsman, age 30, Died 18 December 1861 at 2 Manor Place. Occupation Ivory Carver,  Cause of death ?Dropsy? 3 months. Informant and Residence Mary Kingsman present at the death 5 Manor Place Walworth.
This is definitely the correct William Long Kingsman, a different one died 1865 June Quarter Holborn 1b 396.

1862 Rosina Millicent Kingsman had a son Frederick William Kingsman, born 17 April 1862 at 94 Bermondsey New Road. Registration District "Saint Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey" in the Sub-district "Leather Market" in the County of Surrey. Father William Long Kingsman (Deceased), Occupation Ivory Carver (Master). Mother Rosina Millicent Kingsman formerly Caraffa.
Informant   R.M. Kingsman Mother of 94 Bermondsey New Road, Bermondsey.

1868 Rosina Millicent Kingsman married William Annable 1868 Sep Quarter Bermondsey 1d 51
I do not have the marriage certificate.

1874 Rosina Millicent Annable had a daughter Florence Louise Annable Birth 1874 March Qtr, St Saviour 1d 46. I do not have the birth certificate.

1880 Death Certificate Details of Rosina Annable age 44:- Registration District St Saviour Surrey in the Sub-district of Kent Road in the County of Surrey. Death 2 December 1880, 275 New Kent Road, Widow of William Annable a Carpenter. Informant   Frederick Kingsman present at the death 275 New Kent Road Southwalk.

1883 Rosina Millicent's daughter Rosina Emma Kingsman married James Knight 1883 Dec Qtr St Saviour 1d 360, I do not have the marriage certificate.

1887 Frederick William Kingsman married Jessie Mary Bass 1887 Dec Qtr Shoreditch 1c 182, I do not have the marriage certificate, marriage not proved.

DERRICK

I don't know my grandfathers true identity, I know he used the name Luigi Caraffi, then used the name John (William)Taylor, neither are said to be his true name, I think he may have been a descendant of Rosina Millicent Caraffa.
I don't know what other children Rosina Millicent, Rosina Emma, James Knight or Frederick William Kingsman had, I would like to know what children they had and what happened to them, so that I can try and determine if any were my grandfather.
I don't know why my grandfather used the name Taylor, but during my William Long Kingsman research I came across your Mary Ann TYLOR which is obviously a variant of TAYLOR, I wonder if this is where he got the name Taylor from.

1825 William Long Kingsman  married  Mary Ann TYLOR in 1825 at Newgate, London.

1826 A son to the above couple :- William Kingsman, born 09 November 1826, Christening 07 December 1828, Christ Church Greyfriars Newgate, London. Parents William Long Kingsman and Mary Ann Kingsman. I suspect this child probably had the middle name Tylor/Taylor added to his name, becoming the following William T Kingsman (1881 Census, Ivory Worker).

1881 Census Details:- 5 Gosport Rd., Walthamstow, Essex
William T. Kingsman, Head, 53, born Clerkenwell, Occ: Ivory Worker.
Caroline Kingsman, Wife 57, born Birmingham.
Arthur Erysell, Nurse Child, 7, born Hoxton, Occ: Scholar.

I've rushed typing all this information, anyway, I hope it helps and perhaps some one else may help us out.

Regards - Ron

2
Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests / Re: SHAW FAMILY - 1881 LEEDS YORKSHIRE ENGLAND UK
« on: Saturday 12 March 05 21:27 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Ticker,

I haven't made any progress searching for descendants of the people in my original message.
At the moment I haven't got any more details that I can add to this message, but I do have other messages on this Rootschat website that are related to other ancestors of mine.
I'm still doing quite a lot of research and hope to make progress.
I appreciate Rootschat displaying my messages.

Thanks for your interest – Ron Taylor.

3
England / Re: SHAW WOOD TAYLOR JOYNSON THORPE GOMERSALL KELSEY WELLS GARNER RINGROSE CARAF
« on: Saturday 11 September 04 22:44 BST (UK)  »
Julie

No I have not tried to establish if a passport was issued.
I don't know what name I would ask for, my best bet would be to ask if there was one issued for Louigi/Luigi CARAFFI, as the others names that I suspect are too common.
Thanks for the idea, however, I don't know how to go about requesting such a search, do you know if it's a standard procedure that the Passport Office carry out, any advice is appreciated.

Thanks - Ron

4
England / Photo - George SHAW or William WOOD? BLIND in left eye
« on: Friday 13 August 04 11:48 BST (UK)  »
Hello,

Do you know who the man in the two photographs below is ?

As far as I know, he is an ancestor of mine.

I’ve been told by one auntie that he is my great uncle George SHAW.
Another auntie has told me that he is uncle Bill, but she could not tell me any more,
I think she was referring to a William WOOD.

As far as I know, George Shaw was born at Hull, Yorkshire, England UK c1861, his parents were William and Annie Eliza Shaw (nee Brewster),
his siblings were Margaret, Harriet, Mary, Susannah and Eliza.
George married Maggie.

I don’t know where William WOOD was born.
George Shaw and William Wood both lived in the Leeds area in the late 1800’s.

I can see in the photo that the man’s left eye is fully closed, as though he has lost his eye.

Any help greatly appreciated
Thanks – Ron

5
Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests / SHAW FAMILY - 1881 LEEDS YORKSHIRE ENGLAND UK
« on: Monday 09 August 04 22:26 BST (UK)  »
SHAW WOOD GARNER THORPE GOMERSALL KELSEY WELLS CARAFFI TAYLOR RINGROSE.
I would like to contact descendants of my great grandparents William & Annie Eliza Shaw (nee Brewster), in 1881 they lived in Leeds Yorkshire England with their children George, Harriet, Mary Eliza, Susannah and Eliza Ann Shaw.
George Shaw married Maggie, they had at least two children George and Maggie.
Susannah Shaw married William Wood, they had at least four children:- William, Arthur, Herbert & Florrie Wood.
Harriet Shaw married two times:- first “Bob (Robert) Garner” child Bertha, second “Bob Thorpe” who adopted Gertrude Joynson / Jonson.
Mary Eliza Shaw married three times:- first “Gomersall” children Fred and Lilian, second “Kelsey” child Jack, third “Wells” children Earle and Wilfred.
Later Susannah’s son William Wood married Emma Gertrude Taylor, Susannah’s son Herbert Wood married Harriet’s adopted daughter Gertrude Thorpe / born Joynson / Jonson.
Eliza Shaw had a first child Mary Shaw, Mary was taken in to care.
In the 1930’s Mary Shaw lived with Dr Thomas Leonard Ringrose and his family, Dr Ringrose worked at Leeds General Infirmary.
Eliza Shaw married Luigi Caraffi / John Taylor, she had at least three Caraffi children and five Taylor children.
I would like to contact any of the above people or their descendants, including Dr Ringrose and his family.
Any help greatly appreciated
Thanks – Ron


6
England / Re: SHAW WOOD TAYLOR JOYNSON THORPE GOMERSALL KELSEY WELLS GARNER RINGROSE CARAF
« on: Wednesday 04 August 04 15:47 BST (UK)  »
Hi Julie

Thanks for the information,

Although I knew my grandfather, I don't know his birth name, place or country of birth, birth date or year.
I don't have any positive information about my grandfather before the year 1905, he was probably born between 1865 and 1885.
Family tales say that my grandfather was probably born in London England UK and that when he was young he ran away and lived with an Italian family in Italy, he may have changed his name to Caraffi whilst in Italy, I don’t know if any of this is true.
The first fact that I know about my grandfather is that in 1905 he was a Street Musician living in Leeds, England with his partner (my grandmother) Eliza Ann SHAW, they were using the names Luigi Caraffi and Eliza Ann Caraffi.
I've been told that granddad was either a Clerk or a Piano Tuner before he was a Street Musician.
By the time my father was born at Skipton, England in 1913, my grandparents were using the names John and Eliza Taylor.
Family tales says that Luigi Caraffi and John Taylor were the same person, although this may not be true.
My grandparents used the names John and Eliza Taylor until their deaths at Yiewsley, West Drayton, England in 1961 and 1953, it’s been said that granddad went to Italy on a number of occasions, I don’t know what name he used whilst out of England.
Between 1905 and 1909 whilst using the names Luigi and Eliza Caraffi, I know that my grandparents had at least three children in the Leeds area :- Eliza Ann Caraffi b.1905 d.1906, Rosina Caraffi b.1907 and Charles Caraffi b.1909 d.1910.
After 1910 my grandparents had at least five children with the surname TAYLOR (my father, my aunts and uncle). All the living descendants of my grandparents that I know, can not tell me anything about my grandfather, as they say that they do not know anything about his true identity or what he did when he was young that caused him to run away and change his name.
I think my grandfather was probably born in London England or Italy, or maybe Leeds.
Caraffi and Caraffa were very rare names in England before 1900.
During my research I found a Rosina (Millicent) CARAFFA born at London in the 1830’s,
I think there is a possibility that she was my granddad’s mother or grandmother, due to the facts that she lived in London and that granddad named one of his children Rosina Caraffi in 1907.
Rosina Millicent Caraffa married William Long Kingsman at London in 1858, they had at least one child Rosina Emma Kingsman b.1859. William Long Kingsman d.1861.
Rosina M Kingsman (nee Caraffa) married William ANNABLE at London in 1868, they had at least one child, Florence Louise Annable b.1874, I don’t know what other children they had ?
Rosina Emma Kingsman married James KNIGHT at London in 1883, I don’t know what children they had ?
I don’t know if either of the Rosina’s re-married or had any other children, I think my granddad might be a son of Rosina Millicent or Rosina Emma.
I haven’t managed to contact any descendants of Rosina Millicent Caraffa.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

P.S.
I don’t know if the following is related to the secrecy :-
I’ve been told that my grandmother Eliza Ann Shaw had a first child named MARY SHAW,
Mary was taken away by the authorities and put in to care.
In the 1930’s Mary worked as a live in maid for a Doctor Thomas Leonard RINGROSE who worked at Leeds General Infirmary, he lived at Headingley Leeds.
Any descendants of Mary Shaw or the Ringrose family may be able to help me unravel the true identity of my grandfather ?

Thanks – Ron

7
England / CARAFFA KINGSMAN ANNABLE KNIGHT TAYLOR SHAW WOOD
« on: Monday 19 July 04 21:02 BST (UK)  »
Hi,

I’m trying to find my grandfathers true identity, I don’t know his true name, date, year or place of birth.

I think that my grandfather might be a descendant of Terence Henry Caraffa and Emma Caraffa (nee Garrett/Garritt).

The following births and marriages took place in the London area of England UK :-
Terence & Emma Caraffa had a daughter Rosina Millicent Caraffa c1837.
Rosina Millicent Caraffa married William Long Kingsman in 1858, they had a daughter Rosina Emma Kingsman born 1859, what other children did they have ?
William Long Kingsman died 1861.
Rosina Millicent Kingsman married William Annable in 1868.
Rosina Millicent and William Annable had at least one child, Florence Louise Annable born c1874, what other children did they have ?
Rosina Emma Kingsman married James Knight in 1883, what children did they have ?

What other descendants are there of any of these people ?

My first knowledge of my grandfather is that in 1905 he was a “Street Musician” using the name Louigi / Luigi Caraffi and living with my grandmother (Eliza Ann Shaw) in Leeds Yorkshire.
I’ve been told that the name Caraffi / Caraffa, probably was  not my grandfathers birth name.

By 1912 my grandparents were using the names John and Eliza Taylor.

My grandparents were associated with a WOOD family that lived in the Leeds area of Yorkshire in the late 1800’s / early 1900’s.

There are a number of family tales about my grandfathers occupation prior to 1905, the main two being a “Clerk” or a “Piano Tuner”.

My grandmothers parents were William and Annie Eliza Shaw (nee Brewster) who’s children were George, Margaret, Harriet E., Mary E, Susannah and my grandmother Eliza Ann.

The following names may be connected :-
BREWSTER, SHAW, WOOD, GOMERSALL, KELSEY, WELLS, GARNER, JOYNSON, THORPE, RINGROSE, ROTHSCHILD, LISTER, TAYLOR, THOMPSON, TURNER, CARAFFI, CARAFFA, KINGSMAN, ANNABLE, KNIGHT.

Any information much appreciated, however small.

Thanks Ron

8
England / Re: SHAW WOOD TAYLOR JOYSON THORPE GOMERSALL KELSEY WELLS GARNER RINGROSE CARAFF
« on: Friday 16 July 04 21:54 BST (UK)  »
Carolyn,
I’ll explain why I listed the names Gomesall and Kelsey, amongst the other names.
As far as I know, Mary Eliza Shaw was born c.1871 in Leeds Yorkshire, I think she was married three times to a Gomersall, a Kelsey and a Wells, I’m not sure if that was the correct order of marriages.
Mary Gomersall had Fred & Lilian, may be others.
Mary Kelsey had a son Jack, may be others.
Mary Wells had Earle & Wilfred, may be others.
I don’t  know if there is a connection with your husband Andrew, may be he can make an ancestral connection.
Best Wishes
Ron (Cumbria, England UK)

For anyone else reading this posting, I repeat my original posting :-
I’m trying to find my grandfathers true identity.

1881 Census at Leeds, Yorkshire, England UK
William SHAW and Annie Eliza Shaw (nee BREWSTER).
Children :-
George 20 born Hull,
Margaret 16 b. Bradford,
Harriet E. 13 b. Leeds,
Mary Eliza 10 b. Leeds,
Susannah 5 b. Leeds,
Eliza Ann 2 b. Leeds.

Eliza Ann Shaw (age 2 above) was my grandmother, but I can not find the true identity of my grandfather due to a family secret that goes back to the late 1800’s or early 1900’s.

A “William WOOD” (born 1800’s) was connected to the Shaw family,
some of his children :- William Henry, Arthur, Herbert and Florrie Wood.

The following names may be connected :-
BREWSTER, SHAW, WOOD, GOMERSALL, KELSEY, WELLS, GARNER, JOYNSON, THORPE, RINGROSE, ROTHSCHILD, LISTER, TAYLOR, THOMPSON, TURNER, CARAFFI, CARAFFA, KINGSMAN, ANNABLE, KNIGHT.

Any information much appreciated, however small.

Thanks – Ron

9
England / SHAW WOOD TAYLOR JOYNSON THORPE GOMERSALL KELSEY WELLS GARNER RINGROSE CARAFFA/I
« on: Tuesday 29 June 04 21:07 BST (UK)  »
I’m trying to find my grandfathers true identity.

1881 Census at Leeds, Yorkshire, England UK
William SHAW and Annie Eliza Shaw (nee BREWSTER).
Children :-
George 20 born Hull,
Margaret 16 b. Bradford,
Harriet E. 13 b. Leeds,
Mary Eliza 10 b. Leeds,
Susannah 5 b. Leeds,
Eliza Ann 2 b. Leeds.

Eliza Ann Shaw (age 2 above) was my grandmother, but I can not find the true identity of my grandfather due to a family secret that goes back to the late 1800’s or early 1900’s.

A “William WOOD” (born 1800’s) was connected to the Shaw family,
some of his children :- William Henry, Arthur, Herbert and Florrie Wood.

The following names may be connected :-
BREWSTER, SHAW, WOOD, GOMERSALL, KELSEY, WELLS, GARNER, JOYNSON, THORPE, RINGROSE, ROTHSCHILD, LISTER, TAYLOR, THOMPSON, TURNER, CARAFFI, CARAFFA, KINGSMAN, ANNABLE, KNIGHT.

Any information much appreciated, however small.

Thanks – Ron

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