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Messages - Louise Philp

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1
Carmarthenshire / Re: Pontyberem Pubs
« on: Thursday 29 April 21 07:09 BST (UK)  »
Hello Roy, Just as a matter of interest:-
Maria Thomas, first wife of John Skym of Bankyberllan, was at Mansel's Arms at the time of their marriage in 1843. In the 1841 Census, she is working at Mansel's Arms which shows up as being right next to Bankyberllan.

1841 Wales Census
Mansel Arms, Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire
John Jones   35   Publican      All born in County except for Thomas Cook
Lettice Do   35
David Do   1
William Davies   15   Ag Servant
Maria Thomas   15   F S
David Samuel   55   Agent
Thomas Cook   55   Carrier
Margret Cook   55   

I wonder if it is significant that John Skym's mother was also a Jones - as in John Jones being the Publican of Mansel's Arms in 1841?
Louise

2
Carmarthenshire / Re: Pontyberem Pubs
« on: Friday 23 April 21 08:49 BST (UK)  »
Hi Roy, I knew from Margaret Treharne's marriage to John Thomas, that her father was William Treharne, a mason from Llanstephan. I am fairly certain that I have the right parentage for her now - William Treharne (1777-1865) and Mary Davies (1777-1855). They were married in 1803 and had a daughter Margaret in 1805. He was a mason, living at Morfa Fach in Llanstephan. Of Margaret's siblings, her brother William followed on in his father's footsteps as a mason in Llanstephan and her brother David died in 1893 while at the Masons Arms.
Something else of interest that I turned up was that Thomas Vaughan's first wife, Jane Davies, died at Pontantwyn Farm in Llangendeirne in 1817 and his first daughter, Mary Vaughan, by his second wife, Margaret Treharne, was born at Pontantwyn Farm in 1825. So Thomas Vaughan was a farmer prior to becoming an innkeeper in 1835.
 

3
Carmarthenshire / Re: Pontyberem Pubs
« on: Wednesday 21 April 21 11:04 BST (UK)  »
Most helpful. Thank you  :)

4
Carmarthenshire / Re: Pontyberem Pubs
« on: Wednesday 21 April 21 06:47 BST (UK)  »
Hello Roy. Thanks for the correction re Margaret Skym. I have amended my tree. You ask about Margaret's year of birth - it is an estimate based on the year of her marriage and the births of her children. Going back to your previous question about any family relationship between John Thomas of Cilcarw Fach farm and Stephen Evans (1799-1873) of Cilcarw farm - I don't have Stephen Evans in my tree but something that might be interesting to follow up is that the Jane Skym who married John Thomas had a sister, Margaret Skym, who married a Thomas Evans. Neither of these couples were at Cilcarw farm but if you remember I initially attributed John Thomas and Jane Skym as being the parents of John Thomas of Pelican Inn when in fact his marriage to Margaret Treharne gives his father's name as David Thomas. I feel though that there must be a connection between the father David Thomas and the father John Thomas. I say this because John Thomas and Jane Skym had a daughter Mary Thomas who married William Harries and produced children who are related to me while David Thomas was the grandfather of my great-grandmother. There was close contact between those two families as evidenced by my grandfather's diaries. More research needed!
I will now look at Mary George as per your suggestion. I don't have the facility to order birth certificates as I live in Zimbabwe.

5
Carmarthenshire / Re: Pontyberem Pubs
« on: Monday 19 April 21 10:40 BST (UK)  »
I'm afraid that I don't have the answer to your question yet. However, there is something else that is intriguing me. You were talking about the David Skym who was at Bank y Berllan. I did wonder if it was significant that he was married to a Margaret Walter. I wasn't sure what association there might be with the Berllan (perhaps you could enlighten me?) as that is where my Walters family have lived for more than 500 years. Now, looking at your tree, I see that the Skyms from Bank y Berllan were buried at Capel Seion - which is where most of my family are also buried. I think that Margaret could possibly be the sister of my 3rd great-grandfather, William Walter. This is my descendancy from William Walter:-
William Walter 1771-1829
3rd great-grandfather
William Walters 1801-1874
Son of William Walter
David Walters 1835-1913
Son of William Walters
John Arthur Thomas Walters 1879-1935
Son of David Walters
William David Fanshawe Walters 1922-1980
Son of John Arthur Thomas Walters
Anne Louise Walters
You are the daughter of William David Fanshawe Walters

6
Carmarthenshire / Re: Pontyberem Pubs
« on: Sunday 18 April 21 15:56 BST (UK)  »
As a matter of interest, the Charles Cook who was the licenced Victualler of The Star in 1911 was the father-in-law of John Thomas and Margaret Treharne's great-granddaughter. In the 1871 and 1881 Census records that I posted re John Thomas and Margaret Traherne, they have with them a granddaughter, Martha Anthony. Their daughter, Jane Thomas, married Thomas Anthony and they had three daughters, two dying in infancy. Martha Maria Anthony, the youngest, was the only surviving child when her mother, Jane, died at the Pelican Inn on 30th August 1866. Martha married Thomas Morgan, the Publican of Bridgend Inn in 1888, and they were both still at the Bridgend Inn in 1891:-
1881 Wales Census
Cilcarwfach, Llangendeirne, Carmarthenshire
John Thomas      Head   M   65   Farmer of 28 acres   Carmarthenshire
Margaret Do      Wife   M   75            Do
Martha Anthony   G-Dau      16            Do
1891 Wales Census
Bridgend Public House, Cilcarw, Llangendeirne, Carmarthenshire
Thomas Morgan   Head   M   26   Licenced Victualler   Llanelly, Carm
Martha Do      Wife   M   25            Do
Alice Davies      Serv      10   Domestic Servant   Llannon, Carm
The household was Welsh speaking only.
1901 Wales Census
Rose Villa, The Square, Pontyberem, Carmarthenshire
Thomas Morgans   Head   M   36   Shop Haulier      Llanelly, Carm
Martha M Do      Wife   M   35            Llannon, Carm
Gwyn G Do      Son      9            Llanelly, Carm
Frederick Do      Son      8            Do
John Do         Son      6            Do
1911 Wales Census
Rose Villa, The Square, Pontyberem, Carmarthenshire
Thomas Morgans   Head   M   46   Haulier Pontyberem Co-op Society
                           Llanelly, Carm
Martha Maria Do   Wife   M   45            Do
Gwyn Thomas Do   Son      20   Hitcher (Underground) Colliery
                           Do
Frederick Do      Son      18   Junior Clerk, Metropolitan Bank
                           Do
John Do         Son      16   Drapery Apprentice   Do
Gladys Maria Do   Dau      9   School         Do
Edith Enid Do      Dau      7   Do         Do
Mabel Lilian Do      Dau      3   Do         Do
The couple had been married for 23 years and had had 17 children, 6 still living.
They all spoke both Welsh and English.
1939 England and Wales Register
Rose Villa, The Square, Pontyberem, Carmarthenshire
Martha M Morgan   27 Jan 1865   Household Duties Unpaid   
Mabel L Cook      8 Oct 1908   Do
Clyde R Cook      21 Sep 1928   At School      

Thomas Morgans and Martha Maria Anthony had a daughter, Mabel Lilian, who married Herbert Daniel Cook, the son of Charles Cook who was the Publican of the Star Inn in 1911. You see Mabel and her son Clyde Ronald Cook in the 1939 Census above.

7
Carmarthenshire / Re: Pontyberem Pubs
« on: Friday 16 April 21 16:38 BST (UK)  »
On the 18th August 1838, the burial record of Thomas Vaughan, first husband of Margaret Treharne,  states that his abode was Pelican Inn, Pontyberem.
And I should just point out that the John Thomas who was married to Jane Skym, was at the Pelican Inn in Llangennech - not Pontyberem. But as mentioned previously, the John Thomas who was Margaret Treharne's second husband, had Licences in 1837 for Pelican Inn, Llangenech, and  for Pelican Inn, Pontyberem. 

8
Carmarthenshire / Re: Pontyberem Pubs
« on: Friday 16 April 21 12:00 BST (UK)  »
Sorry - I am wrong about John Thomas being the son of John Thomas and Jane Skym. His father was David Thomas according to the marriage record on 5 September 1839 of John Thomas and Margaret Treharne. In fact it is Margaret Treharne, the widow of Thomas Vaughan who was recorded on that marriage record as being a Victualler, Pelican, Pontyberem. So the Inn came either through her line or through Thomas Vaughan's line.

9
Carmarthenshire / Re: Pontyberem Pubs
« on: Friday 16 April 21 11:17 BST (UK)  »
This is the Probate of John Thomas who was married to Jane Skym, stating that he was of the Pelican Inn:-
ENGLAND AND WALES NATIONAL PROBATE CALENDAR:
Name:   John Thomas
Death Date:   19 Nov 1880
Death Place:   Carmarthenshire, Wales
Probate Date:   31 Dec 1880
Registry:   Carmarthen
 
THOMAS John    31 December 1880
The Will of John Thomas formerly of the “Pelican” Inn but late of Pontardulais-road both in the Parish of Llangennech in the County of Carmarthen who died 19 November at Pontardulais-road was proved at Carmarthen by Jane Thomas of Pontardulais-road Widow the Relict the Sole Executrix.   Personal estate under GBP500 

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