RootsChat.Com

Of course, no problem, thanks for what you've done Trish.

Regards

Details of Violet Lilian Florence Harris
B: 01/01/1903. Queen Charlotte's Lying In Hospital, Marylebone. 
Mother: Ellen Victoria Harris. (E V Harris) Barmaid of Paddington. Paddington. 
Address as: 19 Westbury Road. Paddington. London.

I have found an 'Ellen Harris' on the 1901 Census, as a barmaid working in the 'Pilot' 56 Wellesley Road, Chiswick. Born 1876 (which ties her in to the Ellen of James & Elizabeth Harris 1891 census, 25 James Street, Pancras (On which Ellen is described as a 'Domestic servant').

However I have recently found an 'Ellen Harris' also on the 1901 census living in Gower St. Pancras, as a 'Cook'. So I wonder if it is her, would she have gone from 'Cook' to barmaid in the next year?
Also which caught my eye was that in this 'Boarding house' were two daughter's 'Lilian & Florence' both names were my grandmothers middle names??

The reference to Westbury Road on my GM's birth cert could possibly have been referring to the 'Westbury Road' in Market Lavington, Devizes, where Elizabeth was born?  A red herring so to speak to keep people off of her trail?

I have found 19 Westbury Road on an old map, it appears just off of 'Westbourne Terrace' the family at number 19 (1901 census) were the 'Fleggs' with no apparent relation or mention to Ellen, so I do wonder if she was leaving us a clue as to who she was......or, who the father of her illegitimate child was?  There were a lot of pubs around that area so Ellen may well have worked in one, interestingly, young 'Flegg' married the daughter of a hotel owner called 'Laura Tilbury' the family owned 'The Maze' hotel in Chichester road, right next door to 'Westbury Road' so again.....could this be relevant.

I think maybe the DNA will show the line, but Ellen's whereabouts after 1903 or even after 1991 are sketchy.

All help appreciated.

Dee

Hi Trish

Good to meet you, just taking a bit of time to get used to this site.

Thanks for the info, genius!!! That is incredible.
I had an email from the LMA yesterday who have tried to locate 'Ellen Harris' James & Elizabeth's daughter, by looking at my granny's admission to Marlesford Lodge, but fruitless I'm afraid, here is some of the correspondence.

KBG/207/008 shows Violet Harris admitted to the Branch school Marlesford Lodge on 26/10/1911 and then transferred to the district school at Banstead on 8/3/1912. nothing is listed in the observations column

She is also listed in KCSD/336 this shows an admission date to Marlesford Lodge of 26/10/1911. It lists her date of birth as 1/1/03 and under description is says illegitimate and deserted. She is also recorded as chargeable to the Kensington Board of Guardians. She was discharged on 15th May 1914 to the Grove Hospital. Under the observations column it notes the following: adopted see letter 23/11/11 no communication to be allowed with her.

Unfortunately I have no idea about the reference to 'no communication', but it was certainly common for the Guardians to adopt the children, when the parent had not been around for a good length of time. It might be worth looking through the bundles of letters in the Kensington Board of Guardians ref: KBG/192/106 letters general outwards including to govt departments covers 1911 Jul-1911 Dec and also those of the Kensington and Chelsea School Distarict ref: KCSD/246 Letters from the Local Government Board covering 1911.

I also then found her readmission (presumably after a period in the hospital) on 31/7/1914 to Marlesford Lodge, with transfer to Banstead on 5/3/1915 and then a final discharge on 23/4/1919 to the Metropolitan Association for Befriending Young Servants, home located at Scott House in Hitchin.

I know this does not provide any more details of her early days as you wanted, but I hope you will find the information useful.


Thank you for the extra information. This was certainly useful, as from the digitised records of Marlesford Lodge on ancestry I managed to find an admission to on 26/10/1911 which states nearest known relative mother Ellen ? (no address given). The useful information is that she has come from the parish of Kensington, meaning she should be chargeable to the Kensington Board of Guardians. I also found another admission again on March 8th 1912. Strangely thought it didn't pick up any discharges, but if she was also there on the date of the 1911 census then she has to be coming and going quite a bit.

When I am back on site at LMA I will have a look at KBG/207/008 Register of children chargeable to the Kensington and Chelsea District School, Banstead and the Kensington and Chelsea Branch School, Marlesford Lodge, Hammersmith covering 1906-1912 and also KCSD/336 Register of children in the branch school, Marlesford Lodge, and the district school at Banstead, with a separate section for children from Mile End Old Town covering 1908-1915 to see what information they contain as I cannot find these registers on ancestry. With a bit of luck we might be able to find her original admission date and potentially a clue as to where she came from immediately before that.

So, that's what I've got, my real search is for Ellen, where she went after my granny's birth, but your info may help.  It's interesting Ellen used 'Westbury' as her address on the b/c as this is where Elizabeth originates in Devizes.

Very helpful Trish.
Many thanks.
Dee



 


 

 

Hi there

I'm wondering if you can help? Did James Harris marry Elizabeth & have Ellen Harris in 1876 in Paddington?  Only I'm trying to trace my great grandmother (Ellen) & I think James & Elizabeth Harris of 25 James Street, St Pancras might be them, however I am unable to locate them in 1901?

Thanks
Dee