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Messages - calash

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1
Antrim / Re: Ballymena Street, Belfast 1901
« on: Sunday 16 October 22 11:32 BST (UK)  »
Back to your Joseph Green.
The Esther (Briars) Gibney Cleland seems to be ruled out from being the Mrs. Esther Cleland found in 1960 directory. Esther (Cleland) McCormick is also not correct one.
So, it may now be a matter of viewing on GRONI's site the 1957 death certificate for Joseph Green to see marital status & informant.

Great, I've just ordered the death certificate

2
Antrim / Re: Ballymena Street, Belfast 1901
« on: Saturday 15 October 22 22:16 BST (UK)  »
Back to this-
Belfast Telegraph, 28 Jan.1959: ... (Thursday), to City Cemetery. —Deeply regretted by her sorrowing Son-in-law, Joseph Green, and Grandsons, Jim and Billy, 19 Wensley Street. Gone to join her loved ones. CLELLAND—January ... 1959, at Royal Victoria Hospital, Esther, beloved mother of James Gibney ...

Esther Briars married (1899) Patrick Gibney & had son James (1905) and her son-in-law Joseph Green which fits with daughter Esther Briars marriage to a Joseph Green. Patrick Gibney & wife Esther seem to be separated by 1911 (Esther's illegitimate daughter born 1909). However, above death notice is under Esther Clelland!
Still a bit to sort out yet...

Joseph had sons James b1886 d1969 and William b1887 (haven't been able to find out much about him)

3
Antrim / Re: Ballymena Street, Belfast 1901
« on: Saturday 15 October 22 21:44 BST (UK)  »
Now back to your Joseph Green. Do you have his death certificate? it should list marital status (married or widower?) as well as informant (if his widow Esther then the 1960 directory is probably correct).
Ordinarily I would say your Joseph married Esther Briars/Gibney (who was many years younger) and that she died a month before him. However, there is the entry in the 1960 directory which gives a Mrs. Esther Green at the Ballymena St. address.

Do you have any idea who Thomas & Letitia Baird in the same plot as Joseph Green were?
At some point it might be worth looking at that 1935 marriage for Joseph Green & Esther Briars (?) to see their residences as well as his occupation & name & occupation of his father.
The name Minnie Green is mentioned in Esther's death notice- does the name ring any bells?

I don't recognise Minnie, but could be a wife of one the sons or granddaughter, but with so many children I don't know about - could be anyone

4
Antrim / Re: Ballymena Street, Belfast 1901
« on: Saturday 15 October 22 21:42 BST (UK)  »
Now back to your Joseph Green. Do you have his death certificate? it should list marital status (married or widower?) as well as informant (if his widow Esther then the 1960 directory is probably correct).
Ordinarily I would say your Joseph married Esther Briars/Gibney (who was many years younger) and that she died a month before him. However, there is the entry in the 1960 directory which gives a Mrs. Esther Green at the Ballymena St. address.

Do you have any idea who Thomas & Letitia Baird in the same plot as Joseph Green were?
At some point it might be worth looking at that 1935 marriage for Joseph Green & Esther Briars (?) to see their residences as well as his occupation & name & occupation of his father.
The name Minnie Green is mentioned in Esther's death notice- does the name ring any bells?

Yes the Baird's, someone in their family knew there was a space and let him have it - no-one was keen on him.  I best order the death certificate

5
Antrim / Re: Ballymena Street, Belfast 1901
« on: Saturday 15 October 22 21:40 BST (UK)  »
Esther Gibney, according to her birth registration, seems to have been illegitimate.

Patrick Gibney and son Archibald here in 1911-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__Anne_s_Ward/Edward_Street/133561/
Strangely enough, Patrick listed as married 9 years and 1 living child. Since he and Esther were married 1899 does this mean the couple were apart from c1908?

Esther Gibbney & daughter Esther Briars in a separate residence-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Duncairn_Ward/Marine_Street/132740/
Her entry says married 11 years and 1 living child.

I think this is the daughter Esther's marriage-
Joseph Green to Esther Brien on 17th July 1935 Newtownabbey rehgistration district.
This is the Esther, wife of Joseph Green, who died Feb.1957.

Fantastic, I'll have a good look through it all.  Joseph had 12 children, apparently another 20 out of wedlock.  This is his 4th marriage, 1st wife died in Ireland (Joseph is from Surrey) he was still married to the 2nd and 3rd wife.  At one point is kidnapped two of his children from school in Surrey and took them to Ireland.  The daughter managed to get back to Surrey when she was in her teens.

6
Antrim / Re: Ballymena Street, Belfast 1901
« on: Friday 14 October 22 15:29 BST (UK)  »
Burial of Caroline McCormick-
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6153.42267
Seems to be a Cleland plot & includes another Esther Cleland.

It's too late tonight to sort this all out so will have a look tomorrow.

Thanks for that, so you think Esther is a McCormack?

7
Antrim / Re: Ballymena Street, Belfast 1901
« on: Thursday 13 October 22 22:36 BST (UK)  »

From GRONI database-
Esther Green, age 36, died 24 Feb.1957
Joseph Green, age 95, died 24 Mar.1957

But Esther was on the street index as living at number 33 Ballymena so that can't be her


8
Antrim / Re: Ballymena Street, Belfast 1901
« on: Thursday 13 October 22 22:35 BST (UK)  »
I'm confused, so Esther was 36? I'd heard she ran off with all his money.  Bill and Jim were they Joseph's relations? He had children by those names.  Thanks so much for your work

9
Antrim / Re: Ballymena Street, Belfast 1901
« on: Thursday 13 October 22 21:48 BST (UK)  »
Would you like more details?

Yes please, where's the best place for marriages, nothing on Ancestry - I'm dying to find out who she is, this would be his 4th marriage

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