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Messages - Elastik

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1
Thanks to everyone for answering my questions. I understand that I'll need to look through the RWK war diary for 39/40 if I want to try to identify the officer for whom he was a batman who was shot in France. The "severe reprimand" incident does seem quite out of character. I wondered if anything like that would appear in the records. He had a genetic disorder (Huntington's Disease) which eventually killed him & can produce unpredictable behaviour & a range of problems. It also killed his brother Robert & his daughter, both mentioned in the records. However his time in the army was very positive & he worked successfully as a crane driver for many years after the war.

2
I was interested to see that you thought Frank might have left Dunkirk as part of Operation Dynamo on the 7th June. It seems late to me. Looking at sources that give the "last boat" out of Dunkirk they often quote HMS Shikari which allegedly made its last trip on the 4th June. What is it that makes you think he might have been evacuated under Dynamo rather than Aerial?

3
The redactions in white were me. I just removed his surname & army number. Just being cautious.

4
Thanks again Andy for fantastic detail. According to another sheet he married Winifred on 12th June 1939. Do you see this fitting in with dates on the attached (sheet 4 of 36)? I assume he would have been in the Reserve at this time. War was declared about 10 weeks after their marriage on 3/9/39. Presumably people could see it coming & thought it best not to wait.

5
Again I am extremely grateful for all the knowledge posters have shared with me. It's making the record much more personal. The mysterious "RVGZF" is mentioned again here with reference to his posting to BNAF, maybe it was the convoy. Uncle Frank had married Aunty Winnie in June 1939 and they had their daughter Brenda (only child, sadly now deceased) on 11/7/44, the birth is underlined in red on the attached sheet (21 of 36). This occurred in the emergency maternity home which had been set up in Ruskin College, Oxford, according to this record. Family life continued despite the war. After the birth it looks like Frank was promoted to Corporal possibly. He also got in trouble for cooking food in "an unauthorised place" in July 45 but this doesn't seem to have effected his war record which is very positive.

6
World War Two / Re: Help needed with researching Grandfathers service records WW2
« on: Tuesday 24 September 24 03:35 BST (UK)  »
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying you should apply but have other activities lined up to distract you from what will probably be a long wait.

7
World War Two / Re: Help needed with researching Grandfathers service records WW2
« on: Tuesday 24 September 24 01:44 BST (UK)  »
My experience of using the MoD/NAT Archives to get my Uncle's WW2 records was that it is extremely protracted & there is nothing you can do to speed it up. Eventually I got the records & they are detailed. It was also free. I applied (as you will) first to the MoD using the on-line form + death cert. and waited 6 months. They emailed me & said that his records (like many others) had been transferred to the MoD team at the NAT Archives in Kew & that I should email them & quote the case number, which I did. The MoD/NAT Archives Team responded & explained it would take a long time. One year later I was still waiting. After 13 months I tried to initiate the Freedom of Information Case Review Procedure since the delay seemed disproportionate. The review request was accepted. A few weeks later I got the records. So start to finish I'd say it took 19 months. I visited the NAT Archives in person & even became a member which made absolutely no difference whatsoever. Staff there are very pleasant & helpful but there is nothing they can do. Basically WW2 records are still treated like state secrets. My advice is apply but do not wait or think about it. Find something else to do or occupy you. I may just have been unlucky. Good luck.

8
Family members say that Frank witnessed the death of the officer for whom he was a batman. If he had this role in 1932/3 there were no hostilities at that time so I can't see how it would have happened then. Maybe it happened when he was part of the BEF from Oct '39 to June '40 in France, otherwise he seems to have been in the UK. The attached record (8 of 36) says he was transferred to the Pioneer Corps in Oct 1941 and a few lines below (dated 27/11/43) it seems to say "Disenfranchised in BNAF" which I think is British North Africa Forces. However I can't see any details of where he might have been sent as part of the Pioneer Corps. Were they in North Africa?

9
Great! Thanks very much for all the feedback, the records are starting to make much more sense. It looks like Uncle Frank had a long and varied army career. He seems to have joined up in 1931 for 7 years & then 5 years in Reserve. This is made clear on the first attachment (page 1 of 36). He was 19 & it could be that his decision was economic since there was no work in 1931 & the country wasn't at war at that time. Looking at annual reports from his first 7 years I found the word "batman" mentioned a couple of times in Sept 1932 & 33. I've underlined these in red on the second attachment (page 26 of 36). This is a stroke of blind luck, I cannot see a way to find out which officer he served. So it seems that he was in the Reserve in 1939, maybe, when war was declared and he re-entered the army.

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