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Lancashire / Re: Liverpool Murders !
« on: Sunday 23 September 07 21:51 BST (UK) »
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Lancashire / Re: Liverpool Murders !
« on: Sunday 23 September 07 21:38 BST (UK) »
oooh errr Pat ! .... I was a barmaid in the Borough ( the Ship !! ) many moons ago ....
not at that time I hasten to add ........... !!
I get stuck into all these wonderful sites and can't get anything done !!
Annie
I know what you mean, dreadful innit? My Nan's family, the Bromfields were, from what I've been able to discover, brushmakers in the Borough for generations and I've spent endless hours researching brushmaking when I should really have been doing something constructive - like the ironing!
The really weird thing about my Nan's story about George Chapman was that when she was telling me she couldn't remember the bloke's name but she remembered that one of the barmaids was called Maud Marsh. I was only 18 when she told me this story and knew nuffin' about nuffin' so I asked an old chap I worked with who had an interest in true life murders (it was he who whetted my appetite for the subject) and he gave me pages of info about the case. Lord knows where he got it because there was no Internet in those days.
If memory serves the arrest took place in 1902. I remember being amazed because my Nan told me what all the ladies were wearing at her sister's wedding - and this was over 60 years later. 
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Lancashire / Re: Liverpool Murders !
« on: Sunday 23 September 07 20:34 BST (UK) »
Call me odd ... or bloodthirsty ... but I love these sites !!
http://www.geocities.com/stevenhortonuk/liverpoolmurders.html
http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/contents.html
Enjoy !
Annie
I don't think you're odd or bloodthirsty Annie - or if you are, then I am too because I too find these old murders endlessly fascinating. The Wallace Case is arguably the greatest unsolved murder of all. Another is the Victorian murder of Charles Bravo at The Prory, Balham in south London. Any one of half a dozen people could have dunnit!
The Jack the Ripper casebook website is terrific because not only is it the the creme de la creme of Ripper sites (and having gone to school in the East End I am very interested in JTR too) it also has details and information on any number of other true murders - the older ones of course.
One of my favourite family stories is the one my grandmother told me about how she and the rest of the family were in a pub in the Borough in South London (I think it was the Crown Tavern, Union Street, but don't quote me) celebrating the marriage of my grandmother's sister when the police came and arrested the landlord for murder. His name was George Chapman aka Severin Klosowski and he made a bit of a habit of 'marrying' his gullible barmaids and then poisoning them for their money. He was hanged of course but the interesting thing is that, for a very short time, was a candidate for Jack the Ripper!
Pat.
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The Common Room / Re: When finding someone seems impossible did you carry on?
« on: Sunday 12 August 07 11:41 BST (UK) »
My goodness lesleyhannah - what a story! They say that truth is stranger than fiction don't they? I do wish you all the very best of success in your continuing researches and hope that one of these fine days 'someone' will pop up out of the records to provide a solution for you. In the meantime I shall try not to think of my elusive missing step-great grandmother as such a very big deal! But I suppose it's all relative innit? 
Sorry, I'm a sucker for a bad pun..... 
Sorry, I'm a sucker for a bad pun.....
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Unwanted Birth, Marriage, Death Certs A to G / CLOSE, James - unwanted birth certificate
« on: Wednesday 08 August 07 11:07 BST (UK) »
CLOSE, James born 11 November 1840.
Registration District: St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey, Surrey
Father: James Close (Occ: Carrier)
Mother: Eliza Close, formerly (can't make out the name but think it begins with an H)
Address: Matilda Place, Bermondsey.
I was hoping this James Close was the younger brother of my step-great grandmother, Margaret Sarah Close, the mystery woman in my family tree, but, sadly, it is not.
Registration District: St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey, Surrey
Father: James Close (Occ: Carrier)
Mother: Eliza Close, formerly (can't make out the name but think it begins with an H)
Address: Matilda Place, Bermondsey.
I was hoping this James Close was the younger brother of my step-great grandmother, Margaret Sarah Close, the mystery woman in my family tree, but, sadly, it is not.
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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Joseph Grimbley where are you???
« on: Tuesday 07 August 07 12:58 BST (UK) »
MY HERO!!!! 
Thank you so very much Ian, you are a gent.
Now I don't have to bother with the scan. Gumbley eh - now there's a name to conjure with. Sounds like something from Monty Python, although if memory serves that was Gumby wasn't it?
Thanks again, Pat.
Thank you so very much Ian, you are a gent.
Now I don't have to bother with the scan. Gumbley eh - now there's a name to conjure with. Sounds like something from Monty Python, although if memory serves that was Gumby wasn't it?
Thanks again, Pat.
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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Joseph Grimbley where are you???
« on: Tuesday 07 August 07 12:52 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much Eyesee.
Since posting this morning I have found Stephen and Mary on the 1881 census but I couldn't find them in 1871, that's very helpful.
I'm not sure of the significance of the Sarrus entry although the Henry Sarrus b1850 cd well be the right one.
Thanks again.
I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong with the scan I took of Joseph Grimbley/Grumbley's name from his daughter's m/cert, as I'm sure if folks could see it I'd have some good suggestions as to what the surname actually is. But I keep getting that stupid error message. :-[Hey ho....Pat.
Since posting this morning I have found Stephen and Mary on the 1881 census but I couldn't find them in 1871, that's very helpful.
I'm not sure of the significance of the Sarrus entry although the Henry Sarrus b1850 cd well be the right one.
Thanks again.
I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong with the scan I took of Joseph Grimbley/Grumbley's name from his daughter's m/cert, as I'm sure if folks could see it I'd have some good suggestions as to what the surname actually is. But I keep getting that stupid error message. :-[Hey ho....Pat.
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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Joseph Grimbley where are you???
« on: Tuesday 07 August 07 10:08 BST (UK) »Hi,
Are you able to scan and post those parts of the certificate that are hard to read? There are some very good "readers" on RootsChat!
Full age would mean over 21.
Nanny Jan
Thanks for that Nanny Jan. I've tried a couple of times to post the scan of Joseph's name on the marriage cert but I keep getting a message saying an error has occurred. I'll have a tinker about to see whether I can fix the prob.
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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Joseph Grimbley where are you???
« on: Tuesday 07 August 07 01:21 BST (UK) »
Hi - I recently received the marriage cert for my great grand uncle Stephen Atkinson who married a widow named Mary Sarvus at St James Church, Shoreditch on 30 July 1861. Stephen is listed as a Mariner, which sounds rather romantic...
No ages given for either but both 'of full age'. Is that 18?
Anyway, I've spent a long time looking for the record of Mary's first marriage to Mr Sarvus - with spectacular lack of success. Likewise the death record of said Mr Sarvus. Mary's maiden name was Grimbley (that's what it looks like but it could equally well be Grumbley!). Her father was Joseph Grimbley/Grumbley whose occupation is given as Hatter or Flatter. The cert is difficult to read. I rather think it is Flatter. I can find no trace of Joseph Gr*mbley on any census or anywhere else. Any advice please? Sorry to be a pain but I don't understand why these folk are not listed anywhere - except I'm looking in the wrong place yes?
No ages given for either but both 'of full age'. Is that 18?
Anyway, I've spent a long time looking for the record of Mary's first marriage to Mr Sarvus - with spectacular lack of success. Likewise the death record of said Mr Sarvus. Mary's maiden name was Grimbley (that's what it looks like but it could equally well be Grumbley!). Her father was Joseph Grimbley/Grumbley whose occupation is given as Hatter or Flatter. The cert is difficult to read. I rather think it is Flatter. I can find no trace of Joseph Gr*mbley on any census or anywhere else. Any advice please? Sorry to be a pain but I don't understand why these folk are not listed anywhere - except I'm looking in the wrong place yes?