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Messages - Chris Koons

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Cheshire / Re: I think my G-Grandfather married his cousin... Henry Palin & Elizabeth Thomas
« on: Thursday 06 June 19 22:22 BST (UK)  »
Thanks again! Verification accepted.

Honestly, thinking about it, I’m kind of surprised I haven’t found more close connections, given that I keep seeing Sants & Palins marrying, they keep appearing as neighbours on the same census pages & the Middlewich, Clive Green, Wimboldsley, Occlestone Green & Minshull Vernon areas were & are still small villages (with the exception of Middlewich which is now a decent sized town) not far from each other. I can see how the people in these small towns & villages could easily be related to each other.

Onward & upward... up the tree, that is! 😁

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Cheshire / I think my G-Grandfather married his cousin... Henry Palin & Elizabeth Thomas
« on: Thursday 06 June 19 07:50 BST (UK)  »
The Palins are causing scandal again! Lol I think my G-Grandfather Henry Palin May have married his cousin. Can somebody help me to confirm or disprove this?

Here’s what I have:

Henry Palin b. 9 Aug 1859 Middlewich, Cheshire
m
Elizabeth Thomas b. Sept 1874 Middlewich, Cheshire
27 Dec 1896

It was Henry’s 2nd marriage, as his 1st wife, Eliza, died in 1895.

Henry was the illegitimate son of Sarah Palin (b.1843). As far as I tell, she never officially revealed the fathers name. I have a copy of his birth certificate.
Sarah’s parents were William Palin & Margaret Arkinstall. Sarah left him there to be raised by his grandparents while she went off to get married & have another more respectable family.

Elizabeth was the daughter of John Thomas (b.1841) & Mary Palin (b.abt 1848). Mary, it seems, was Sarah’s younger sister...

Thanks again for all your help untangling these Palins!

3
Cheshire / Re: The Mystery of Martha Palin (b 23/4/1882 Minshull Vernon, Cheshire)
« on: Wednesday 05 June 19 08:14 BST (UK)  »
So, while we were chatting I decided to explore up another branch of my tree, on my paternal grandmother’s side, open up a census & who do I find living next door to my GGG-grandfather? Martha Oakes - the one from Over! Lmao They are from completely different ends of my tree. It must be a sign.

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Cheshire / Re: The Mystery of Martha Palin (b 23/4/1882 Minshull Vernon, Cheshire)
« on: Wednesday 05 June 19 07:56 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: garstonite on Wednesday 05 June 19 07:55 BST (UK)
no luck
worth a try  :)

 :(
However, where there’s 1 Oakes, there are likely others! Lol

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Cheshire / Re: The Mystery of Martha Palin (b 23/4/1882 Minshull Vernon, Cheshire)
« on: Wednesday 05 June 19 07:41 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: garstonite on Wednesday 05 June 19 07:18 BST (UK)
My Oakes family are same church and also in St Chad ,Over in 1700s
ADDED
As it is such a small area - any OAKES members in your tree ?

I do! I have 2, both named Martha...
Martha Oakes b. Abt 1725 Lower Peover, d. 1763
Martha Oakes b. 1823, Over, Cheshire, d. 1891

Any matches to your tree?

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Cheshire / Re: The Mystery of Martha Palin (b 23/4/1882 Minshull Vernon, Cheshire)
« on: Wednesday 05 June 19 07:09 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: garstonite on Wednesday 05 June 19 07:04 BST (UK)
WHITLOW   Alice   PALIN   Charles   Middlewich, St Michael & All Angels   Cheshire East   1063/3/90

the church they married in
................................................................................................
Thanks! St Michael & All Angels is also the church I grew up attending so... I feel like I’m home!

The Sant & Palin families are so intertwined, I have almost as many Palins in my tree as I do Sants & I was born a Sant. Lol

7
Cheshire / Re: The Mystery of Martha Palin (b 23/4/1882 Minshull Vernon, Cheshire)
« on: Tuesday 04 June 19 17:04 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: avm228 on Tuesday 04 June 19 09:02 BST (UK)
Herbert’s father was indeed William rather than George, by the looks of earlier records - but that doesn’t mean you have the wrong marriage certificate for Herbert and Martha if all the other information on it makes it clear it is the right one.

Sometimes mistakes were made - people either didn’t know the correct first name of their father (especially in cases of illegitimacy, estrangement or early bereavement) or there was an error by the minister or registrar in recording the information. (Sometimes people born out of wedlock invented a father’s name to avoid the stigma of illegitimacy, but that is not the case here).

In this case William Sant had died aged 50 on 3 April 1893 when Herbert was a few days short of his 15th birthday (sadly William died in Chester Asylum, where he had been admitted on 29 November 1892).  Perhaps Herbert simply knew him as “Father”, and made a mistake as to his name on his marriage years later?

I realised, this morning, that Herbert’s eldest sibling was named George & as he was 14 years older than William, maybe he stood in for his father at Herbert’s wedding. Maybe there was also an element of embarrassment, that his father was admitted to & died in the asylum.

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Cheshire / Re: The Mystery of Martha Palin (b 23/4/1882 Minshull Vernon, Cheshire)
« on: Tuesday 04 June 19 08:48 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: rosie99 on Tuesday 04 June 19 08:34 BST (UK)
Welcome to rootschat

The 1903 marriage certificate gives Martha's age as 20 which would tie in with this birth
Birth Sep qtr 1882 
Palin    Martha Ellen    Mothers maiden surname Whitlow   
Nantwich    8a   359

Parents marriage
Marriages Dec qtr 1877 
Palin    Charles       
Whitlow Alice       
Northwich   reg district 8a   393

Good info! Thank you!! I’ll check it out in the morning... I live in Kansas, so it’s currently the middle of the night. Lol

9
Cheshire / Re: The Mystery of Martha Palin (b 23/4/1882 Minshull Vernon, Cheshire)
« on: Tuesday 04 June 19 08:45 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: BumbleB on Tuesday 04 June 19 08:33 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat  :)

I assume this is the family, living in Stanthorne in the 1911 census.

Herbert aged 33, born Middlewich
Martha Ellen, aged 29 born Minsull Vernon - married 8 years, 2 children
Charles William, 7, born Stanthorne
Fred, 4, born Stanthorne

Both children have mother's maiden name of Palin (GRO)

This is the right family but on the one I’m looking at, both children have the surname Sant. Herbert was an alkali labourer.

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