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Messages - ClaireDC

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1
England / Re: Bastardy affiliation order - help in better understanding it!
« on: Thursday 07 April 22 20:23 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for your reply. He was based in the same city at the time - my great grandmother lived about a mile up the road from his barracks! His regiment was posted abroad later that year but was definitely still there at the time of the hearing.

I read that some women brought witnesses with them. I think the corroborative evidence they needed must have been a witness account. There is actually a female name also on the court record underneath my great grandmother’s name - it was her neighbour. Maybe she brought her as a witness, not that it worked.

2
England / Re: Bastardy affiliation order - help in better understanding it!
« on: Thursday 07 April 22 18:04 BST (UK)  »
The men’s names appear in the defendant column and the next column is for the plea - so I think that’s the plea the men entered. Some say denied and some admitted. I don’t think the women could have entered pleas for them in their absence - surely they would all say admitted?! The judgement is in another column, some dismissed and some granted.

I think it must have been easier for the women in earlier times when the parish was involved!


3
England / Re: Bastardy affiliation order - help in better understanding it!
« on: Wednesday 06 April 22 10:47 BST (UK)  »
Another update - the saga goes on! It seems the question of whether men were present at these bastardy hearings at this time is incredibly difficult to answer.

The helpful archivist with whom I was discussing this is now wondering whether putative fathers were actually present. There is a column entitled “Plea” in the court record and it says “denied” in my family’s case. The archivist looked at some other bastardy hearings either side of this one and some say “denied” and some say “admitted”. We therefore think the defendants must have been present to enter these pleas. Interestingly some denied ones are dismissed for want of corroborative evidence and some are adjudged to be the father and ordered to pay. Raises the question of what constituted convincing evidence I suppose!

I am still researching and reading - it’s very tricky to find any relevant secondary source material to explain how the court process for bastardy cases worked at this time.

The question is important to me because the answer potentially rules out the possibility of my grandmother’s real biological father using another soldier’s name (DNA has shown her father was NOT the man on the bastardy record).


4
England / Re: Bastardy affiliation order - help in better understanding it!
« on: Tuesday 29 March 22 19:29 BST (UK)  »
Having read the articles I am still not entirely sure where my bastardy record fits in to the process tbh! I think it MIGHT be my great grandmother applying for a bastardy order to be brought against him in which case he wasn’t present. Unless it’s after a bastardy order has been issued, and a warrant for him to appear before the court, and this is him in court and denying it. Hmmm still feels rather unclear…  I have ordered a couple of the books!

5
England / Re: Bastardy affiliation order - help in better understanding it!
« on: Tuesday 29 March 22 11:56 BST (UK)  »
Am just updating the thread with another reply I have now had from my local archives.

Thank you for your enquiry. The procedures relating to bastardy/illegitimacy cases changed over time, passing from the parish authorities to the civil courts. They were affected by specific legislation (some of which was introduced in the 1920s and later) and by general legislation, such as the Old and New Poor Law.
 
I can see why you have struggled to find the information you need, there seems to be a lot of information about pre-20th century illegitimacy cases/procedures, but not much about 20th century procedures. I have found a few links which are helpful (and explain things in plain English, rather than legal-ese!)
 
https://www.genguide.co.uk/source/bastardy-bonds-documents-parish-poor-law/
https://www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/family-history/parishes-and-churches/illegitimacy
 
This paper may also be helpful: https://www.manchesterhive.com/view/9781784997441/9781784997441.00008.xml but it looks like you may need to pay for access to the full article.
 
For a more general context about illegitimacy, this book looks really interesting -https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/25/in-the-family-way-jane-robinson-shameful-history-illegitimacy , our library service has several copies: https://catalogue.exploreyork.org.uk/client/en_GB/default/search/results?qu=in+the+family+way&te=ILS.
 
There’s also this book. We do not have a copy, but it’s the kind of book that might be held by academic/specialist libraries:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/practice-orders-affiliation-proceedings-bastardy/dp/1240092083
 
I hope this information goes somewhat towards answering your question. Best of luck with your continued research.

6
England / Re: Bastardy affiliation order - help in better understanding it!
« on: Monday 28 March 22 19:06 BST (UK)  »
A brief minor update-

I had this response when I enquired at the archives:

I'm not sure whether a putative father would need to be present in the court hearing. He would have to be present to be named on the birth certificate, but my feeling is that he wouldn't need to be present in the court for a woman to bring her claim. I'm afraid I couldn't find an answer to whether he needed to be present in any of the secondary literature here.

But I am now trying someone else who knows more about the civil court process.

I just want to know if he was there or not!

7
England / Re: Bastardy affiliation order - help in better understanding it!
« on: Sunday 27 March 22 19:41 BST (UK)  »
I paid a small fee at my local archives and they searched for it. It was in the local magistrates records. They were surprised to have found it as apparently it’s quite rare for them to still exist.

But as turned out in my case it was the DNA that revealed him. Your grandfather’s father will definitely be in your DNA somewhere if you take a test. Good luck!

8
England / Re: Bastardy affiliation order - help in better understanding it!
« on: Sunday 27 March 22 11:47 BST (UK)  »
His surname was used as my grandmother’s middle name when her birth was registered after the unsuccessful bastardy order.

9
England / Re: Bastardy affiliation order - help in better understanding it!
« on: Sunday 27 March 22 07:30 BST (UK)  »
Thanks, yes I have ploughed through Hansard. Interesting how much of a problem there was with soldiers begetting illegitimate children. It did make me think that he had strong motivation to lie and give my great grandmother another man’s name - if his pay would have been docked and his wife would have found out!

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