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Messages - Liviani

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1
Kincardineshire / Re: Valentine in Fettercairn and Stonehaven
« on: Sunday 25 August 24 19:38 BST (UK)  »
In reply to interest about Valentine’s of Fettercairn, I think you will find my sister Lorna Herring’s Valentine family tree on Ancestry, extremely useful. She has researched the family right back to the 1600s and many of the people queried will have links in our family tree. We are Valentine’s twice over as our Gt Grandparents were Valentine first cousins. They both are descended from David Valentine and Agnes Swan who lived in Benholm but his forebearers were from Fettercairn. Our line ended up in Perth, Scotland and our Gt Grandmother was born in Tasmania. There are many Valentine relations still there and the Scottish and Tasmanian family have maintained the link from 1860s onwards!

As for there being no Valentine’s in Fettercairn, well population is only 350! There are many of the family in nearby towns and Dundee and Perth. I am interested to know if any other Valentines from Fettercairn had ancestors who were Glasites? Our Gt Grandfather George Valentine was but I’m not sure how far membership of this church went.

I’ve found it to be a family with a strong identity in this corner of Scotland, some very interesting characters and certainly in our branch’s case a family who loved to travel but keep in touch with their roots. Hope this may help other Valentine researchers.

Hello Mgil2503, I also have Valentines in my direct ancestry. My 3x ggm was Elizabeth Valentine, she married James Davidson Ewen. She was born in Luthermuir. Her parents were James Valentine, born Fordoun and Agnes Wyllie. James' first wife was Margaret Tevendale.

James Valentine's parents may have been James Valentine and Ann Craig, which then leads me to your sister's tree which has James' parents as John Valentine and Janet Johnstoun. John born 1722, at Deanstrath, Fettercairn.

I was actually in Fettercairn yesterday and found several Valentine gravestones at St Marks Church, I got photos of a small number of them:

Alexander Valentine who died at Fasque in 1910 and his wife Agnes Cobban.

Robert Valentine, late farmer of Bogmuir died aged 82 in 1868, his wife Helen Rhind.

William Valentine, later farmer of Drumhendry died aged 72 in 1870, also his wife Christina Valentine (I assume her maiden name was also Valentine?)

2
Aberdeenshire / Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« on: Sunday 25 August 24 18:17 BST (UK)  »
I've been inactive for a while but I'm back still trying to solve parents in the line of Thurlow Fraser (1825-1889) (married to Jane Cowie). With your wonderful help we found a father for him - Alexander Fraser married to Christian Burnet.
From the various census records we see that Thurlow Fraser aged 15 is working as a Male Servant in an Inn run by George and Jean Fraser (presumably relatives).

To try and get some perspective of their movements I did this  map linking their places of births and deaths for Alexander Fraser, Christian Burnet, Thurlow Fraser and Jane Cowie.

Alexander Fraser        born Fraserburgh     death Cullen

Christian Burnet        born Pitsligo            death Philorth

Thurlow Fraser            born Fraserburgh        death New Pitsligo

Jane Cowie                born New Deer            death New Pitsligo
They all moved in fairly close proximity in this area of Scotland.
I've added Banffshire in because this is where the 1841 census is taken for Thurlow Fraser (15 yrs old).  Alexander died in 1848 in Cullen so he must have moved there, and his son Thurlow, stayed in Banff with family (also Frasers) at the Inn where he worked as a Male Servant.  Pitty the name of the Inn is not given.  I would guess that Christian Burnet was with Alexander in Cullen at his death and then moved back to near her old hometown (Philorth near Pitsligo)

I'm still not completely satisfied that this Alexander Fraser (married to Christian Burnet) are Thurlow's parents.  Are there any actual birth notices available that can show this?

We have Thurlow and Jane's actual marriage certificate but no birth or baptism certificate.

Hi Garthkh, I have just stumbled upon this thread and noticed mention of Christian Burnet(t) and Alexander Fraser. This is likely not relevant to your particular ancestry, but I thought I'd mention this regardless. I have a private working theory tree going. It features the same Alexander Fraser and Christian Burnet(t) that is mentioned here, there is a good chance they are my direct ancestors. The working theory tree is based on my great-grandmother who was illegitimate and via DNA matching I have some leads on who her father was.

Alexander and Christian's daughter Jane Fraser is my possible ancestor. Jane married John Rankin in 1836 at Fraserburgh. She died at Boyndie Street, Banff in 1868. On her death entry, her parents were named Alexander Fraser, deceased who was a joiner and Christian Burnet. I also have a brother for her, Alexander Dalrymple Fraser born about 1808, in Fraserburgh. He died in 1883 at Stonehouse, Rathen. Alexander's death entry also confirms his father's occupation as a joiner.
Incidentally, Jane Fraser's husband, John Rankin was also working in the same trade, he was a house carpenter.

I'm curious about the 1848 you have for Alexander Fraser's death. I have him as still alive in the 1851 census in Peterhead, aged 65 with the occupation of house carpenter (master employing one man). He is living with a 21-year-old house servant, Hellen Webster born Peterhead. My only query with this one is that it has him as 'unmarried', but wondered if it was a mistake instead of noting him as widowed, but the age and occupation match. I'm happy to consider that I may have the wrong man if the 1848 death is more likely? This 1851 census has him being born approx 1786 in the parish of Lonmay.

Happy to hear any thoughts.

EDIT: Found another child of Alexander Fraser and Christian Burnett, Isabella who was in receipt of poor relief in Fraserburgh in 1883 aged 65.

3
James graduated from Aberdeen University, Faculty of Medicine, April 1881

The Degree of M.B.
James Berhardt Klingner Robb, M.A., Portsoy

Wonderful, thank you. So James B K Robb was a qualified doctor come September 1881 when Bernhardt K R Valentine was born

4
Great find re James Robb.

I always remember researching unusual christian names for a friend's great grandfather and it turned out he got them from the families neighbour

I often wonder if the neighbours helped with a birth or pregnancy and so the child was given a name to honour them.

My great grandmother was illegitimate and had a middle name that I couldn’t place. I initially thought that it was the father’s surname, but after years of piecing through DNA matched and making up theoretical (and private) trees, that this probably wasn’t the case.

My ggm’s mother ended up giving birth miles away from her home - New Aberdour and she was from Banff and Macduff. The middle name used was McQueen. I discovered there was a family living there with that surname, Hugh and Margaret McQueen. I like to think that this family looked after her and helped.

5
In 1881 James above was a medical student in Aberdeen - Might he have delivered the Valentine's son :-\

I think this is James B K Robb, in Montrose postal directory, at 145 High Street, just with his middle initials the wrong way round. I can’t seem to find a date for this directory, but he was practicing in Montrose.


6
Hi Kay99

Wow, thank you so much for finding all of this info! My search skills have been subpar as I wasn’t getting the results on SP.

Without going into detail, I did notice last night that these first names possibly exist in a person today.

Your research does indicate where the names stemmed from, what a wonderful find.

I’ll do some more research into James B K Robb. Perhaps he was posted down in Montrose for a while. Wonderful to see where the name originated from too with Julius.

7
Hello everyone. I have query about the name used for someone in my tree Bernhardt-Klingnar-Robb Valentine. It's clearly not your typical Scots name used in 1881. I've always been intrigued by this name. I've not found anything significant on Google, other than modern people with similar names (and they are usually German).

This is probably a long shot, but does anyone have any idea where a name like this would come from in Rossie Island in 1881? I haven't found anything on Scotland's People other than the gentlemen named above.

Here's some background to the family -

Bernhardt K R Valentine was born in September 1881, Rossie Island, Craig to parents; Joseph Valentine and Mary Hillock. Joseph and Mary married in Kirkcaldy in 1874. Mary was born in Kirkcaldy. Joseph was born Marykirk, Kincardineshire and further back they are from Kincardineshire generally. No obvious conections to Germany or other countries in mainland Europe. Mary's parents were Andrew Hillock born Abbotshall, Fife and Barbara Walker born Haddington.

Joseph and Mary have other children who all have typical names for this time period -

James b. 1875 Dundee
Barbara b. 1876 Dundee
Joseph b. 1877 Wormit
Andrew b. 1879 Arbroath
Agnes Wylie b. 1883 Burntisland
Mary Hillock b. 1885 Burntisland
Catherine Ann b. 1887 Burntisland

In the 1881 census Joseph, Mary and their first 4 children are living in Carnegie Street, Montrose, and Jospeh is a General Labourer. The family are in Kinghorn by the 1891 census.

In the 1901 census Bernhardt is the head of household of a bothy at Pitlochie in Strathmiglo, Fife.

Bernhardt marries Helen Wood Greenfield Riddle in 1907, St Giles, Edinburgh. Their children are named;

Elizabeth Greenhill Riddle Valentine
Mary Hillock Valentine
Joseph Valentine

No repetition of the name Bernhardt here.

I'd also like to add that there was an RCE regarding the spelling of the name on Bernhardt's birth entry. The spelling was altered from Bernhardt-Kingner-Robb Valentine to Bernhardt-Klingnar-Robb Valentine. So the spelling must've been important to the family. This was corrected less than a month after the birth of Bernhardt.

Any insights appreciated. Thank you!




8
Angus (Forfarshire) / Re: Janet/Jessie Nicoll of Craig Parish.
« on: Sunday 25 August 24 00:11 BST (UK)  »
Hi Snifferdog. Apologies for the delay in responding. Lovely to hear from a distant relative  :)

I've not had a look at the Nicol/Tindals for some time, but I too haven't managed to find any death info for Margaret and Ann, unfortunately. I will do some digging on them, but it's possible they died before the statutory registration began in 1855. I did have Margaret being married to a John Stewart but didn't have any info on her children, so thank you for that. I will add John Tindal Stewart to my tree. I'm not sure if her sister Ann married, but it's an area of my tree that I've not really researched of late. I think it's time I re-visited them.

Also, thank you for the info on your Youngs. I also didn't have that information. Your Janet (Jessie) Nicol Stott is the sibling of my 3x great-grandfather James Stott (1842 - 1924). He married Jane Easton in 1865 in Brechin and had the following children

Mary Stott 1866
Jane Stott 1870
Robina Keith Stott 1874
George Stott 1886

I can see that your Youngs also had a Robina  :)

Your information has been helpful. Thank you again.

9
Banffshire / Re: mid 1800 census addresses in Gamrie
« on: Sunday 18 December 22 02:01 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you Forfarian. Geograph is a truly wonderful site. It's lovely to see pictures of the area and how the land and surroundings appear. Amazing  :)

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