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Messages - Thermos

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1
Travelling People / Re: Livermore cambridge
« on: Friday 31 March 17 09:07 BST (UK)  »
Thanks LizzieL,
think you are correct as Sarah Lived with Edmund quite a few years, & no one else in mentioned appart from the children. & on one of the pieces of info my Relative sent me has 'Mary Ann Yourby Livermore' on it?
Where  did you find this information? & I think that is a crazy coincidence as we have Webb used as a name in our family with John Witney who was with Mary Ann Livermore, they used the name Webb when my Great Granddad was christened in Kent, he was born in Tolleshunt Darcy. near Maldon.
I grew up in the Village where they settled, on Little Totham Plains, they seemed to travel between Cambridge, Essex & Kent for hop picking. & I know also next generation down Marys Son Walter Witney/Webb Married Alice Stone & they also traveled to Kent, Norfolk, Essex southend area/Hockley Tilbury, I know this from her telling my dad & by the Births registered for her brothers & sisters.
They also eventually settled at one of there winter stops with two Railway carriages converted on Little Totham Plains. It seems like lots of familys they had to stop traveling, at that point.

John Witney who we have no recorld of marying Mary Has on his Grave stone that Mary was later buried with the words 'The beloved husband of Mary Witney' but she uses Mary Ann Livermore - A spinster no occupation of Sarah Ann Livermore (deceased) on his Death certificate so I think that confirms they lived like they were married but never did.
they even fill out the 1911 Census as John & Mary Webb Married Living on The Plains Little Totham & all the childrens Names are correct & my Granddad when alive said he new they used this name & In his dads christening book it had Walter Webb also. this is one of the problems I'm finding & how they 'Disappear' for a few years.

But what I was also wondering is John Witney (the one that was with Mary) His Dad was John Witney also, & Married Charlotte Neale. do you know anything about this side?
they even fill out the 1911 Census as John & Mary Webb Living on The Plains Little Totham & all the childrens Names are correct & my Granddad when he new they used this & In his dads christening book it had Walter Webb also. this is one of the problems I'm finding & how they 'Disappear' for a few years.
I find It all interesting but not easy!
Thanks again for all your help!

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Travelling People / Re: Livermore cambridge
« on: Thursday 30 March 17 14:52 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Lizzie,  :)
I have some info of what you have put but that is as far back as I have, ( this info was given to me by my Grandads Cousin. this is what it says
'Sarah Ann Livermore was born 29th June 1838, the daughter of Ann Livermore (nee Freshwater) who was born 1808/1814 and Joseph Livermore (Deceased) (1799-1838) at the Union Workhouse, Bassingborne. (copy of birth certificate in file). Joseph and Ann married on the 31st December, 1826 at Melbourn.'
Sounds a very sad set of circumstances to be pregnant & loose your husband before your daughter was born, it must have been terrible, but poorer people didn't have long lives back then so guess it may have happened more back then?

'Then in the 1841 Census is has Sarah Aged 3 living with her mother Ann Livermore (31) and Brother James aged 7 - with Ann's parents, John Freshwater(65) and Eleanor Freshwater(60). Also Joseph Freshwater - 15 at Melbourn, Cambridge. Address given as 'The Green'.

'1851 Census Aged 13 living with her mother Ann aged 43( given as pauper/charwoman) also in household were Joseph Livermore aged 29 his wife Ann aged 27 and their son Joseph aged 1 year. Address given as 28 Highstreet, Melbourn, Cambridge.'   

1861 Census aged 23 Living with Edmund Jourby (Tombs) as a lodger at 63 High Street, Cambridge.

1871 Census Aged 32 Living with Edmund Tombs (hawker) as a lodger together with her daughter Mary Ann aged 8 (my G G grand mother), daughter Sarah aged 4 and son John aged 1. Address given as Barking Road, Royston. (at the same adress there was a Bird family. (in later years there was a marriage between Birds & Witneys)

then I have nothing until 1901Census,
Aged 65 Living with son Fred 23. Sarah given as a Licenced Hawker. Address as Caravan, Southend road, Corringham

1911 Census 74 living with Frederick Goody (hawker) and her grandson Jim Livermore (age given as 20 but could be a little older)also given as hawker. Address given as Eastwood. (I belive this to be her daughter Sarahs son James who was born on the 28th August, 1888 at Thundersley.

1912 She died on the 1st May 1912 at the Bohemian Estate Eastwood age given as 74 Widow of Herbert Livermore an earthenware hawker, The signature of the informant of her death was Kate Webb (her daughter) who was present at her death. (copy of death certificate in file.)

That is as much as I think I have & so don't understand where they got the Idea she was the widow of Herbert Livermore? As Her maiden Name was Livermore? Did she mary another Livemore in the time I have no record between 1871 & 1901???

Do you or anyone else have any information going back any further?

I find some of it confusing & I guess lots of them didn't really want people knowing to much & this is just one part of one side of the family!  ;D

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Travelling People / Re: Livermore cambridge
« on: Thursday 30 March 17 11:05 BST (UK)  »
My G G Grandmother was Mary Ann Livermore Born 1862 Bassingbourn Cambridge, Died 1942 Tolleshunt Major Essex. She was my G G granddad John Witney's Wife but I don't think they officially married. Probably just jumped over the broom!!
Mary's Mother was My G G G Grandmother she was was Sarah Ann Livermore Born 1838 & She lived with Edmund Jourby (Tombs) in Melbourn Cambridge in 1861 Census, Sarah's Dad was Joseph Livermore & I think the name Joseph comes up in quite a few generations.
Sarah and Edmund then go to Roysten in 1871 but are only recorded as Lodgers.
havn't got anything else until, 1901
Sarah Is then in Orset, Southend road in a Caravan in 1901.
Sarah had a brother Joseph born about 1822 in Barley Hearts, His Partner was Ann born about 1824, who had a son Joseph born about 1850 Melbourn Cambridge all Livermore's.
Sarah Ann Livermore Died age 74 1st May 1912 at the Bohemian Estate, Eastwood & one confusing bit is on the death certificate it says she is the widow of Herbert Livermore an earthenware hawker. Thats about as much as I know.
From what I know, some of the family went to Australia.

4
Travelling People / Re: Kentish Gypsies !
« on: Monday 06 March 17 08:25 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Romany knaves,
Do you know anything about the Stone Family I know they used to stay in Kent often for the hop picking? Also Witney/Webb and Livermore they are all my direct relatives, I know my Great Nan that was a Alice Stone be for Marrying my Great Grandfather Walter Witney/Webb Walters Mum was Mary Ann Livermore & his dad was John Witney/Webb but I can't find much more out about them?
I know Alice Stone told my Dad she remembers walking to Kent for the Hop picking & that was from the Eastwood Bohemian Estate in Essex. and the Little Totham Plains in Essex & The Livermore side were between Kent Essex & Cambridge mainly.
Thanks Michael

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Travelling People / Re: Livermore cambridge
« on: Sunday 05 March 17 15:58 GMT (UK)  »
Hi
My Great Grandmother that remembers going hop picking in Kent was Alice Stone she Married my Great Grandfather Walter Witney/Webb his mother was Mary Ann Livermore, she was defiantly from Cambridge I think Melbourne/Royston Cambridge.
I'm waiting to hear back from a family member who has gone quite a long way back on the Livermore & Witney/Webb side of the family I have quite a bit of the information there is Joseph's in that defiantly a Sarah Ann Livermore my GGG grandmother I think & my GG grandmother was Mary Ann Livermore (Polly) don't think she actually married my GG grandfather John Witney/Webb I will get all the information in front of me & post something thanks
Michael

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Travelling People / Re: Livermore cambridge
« on: Saturday 04 March 17 23:35 GMT (UK)  »
I noticed mention of my Great Great Grandperants John & Mary Witney, only as far as I know Mary never actually married John her Grave stone has Witney on it but her Death was Registered as Livermore.
I would be interested in any information you might have, When searching you need to know they oftern used the name Webb in our family instead of Witney, it was secret but guess it long ago now.
I'm also searching for anyone looking into the Stone side of my family & any of the Romany history we have I know the Livermores & Witney's/Webbs &a Stones used to travel between Cambridge, Essex Eastwood Estate, and Kent
My Dad remembers my Great Nana talking of walking to Kent for the hop picking They owned Land that way they used to stop at.
If anybody knows more that would be great thanks
Michael

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Kent / Re: Looking for relatives from Romany Gypsy Stone, Witney/Webb & Livermore Family's
« on: Tuesday 28 February 17 19:55 GMT (UK)  »
Hi it's Michael Witney again!  :) Sorry new to this I posted in the areas I thought might have connections, I will find out all I can but know very little about the Stone side of our family, apart from locally. Thanks I appreciate any help & hope you can see I'm new to all this forum stuff :)

Mike

8
Kent / Re: Looking for relatives from Romany Gypsy Stone, Witney/Webb & Livermore Family's
« on: Tuesday 28 February 17 19:54 GMT (UK)  »
Sorry new to this I posted in the areas I thought might have connections, I will find out all I can but know very little about the Stone side of our family, apart from locally. Thanks I appreciate any help & hope you can see I'm new to all this forum stuff :)

9
Kent / Looking for relatives from Romany Gypsy Stone, Witney/Webb & Livermore Family's
« on: Tuesday 28 February 17 17:31 GMT (UK)  »
Looking for anyone that may know anything about my family tree & any family out there?
Hi My Grandad was George Witney & my Great Grandad was Walter Witney/Webb, his wife my Great Gandmother was Alice stone & they came to Little Totham & lived on the Totham Plains,
She married Walter Witney/Webb they travelled to Kent for Hop picking etc, & I know my dad has done some searching & she was related to the Stone's at Bohemian Estate Eastwood  Southend, or came or went there some of the time.
They settled here in Little Totham for the farm work mainly hop picking, think lots of them were Hawkers & my dad still remembers they held on to alot of there traditions & didn't want to change, they never had water or electric connected to the little timber bungalow they built here & still cooked outside some of the time over a fire with a tripod & this was in the 1950's -1970's.
I'm very interested in my roots & know quite a lot about the Witney/Webb side I know they used both names. Depending on where they were?
But I have limited knowledge about the Stone Side, I know my dad remembers Alice talking about walking from Southend area to kent Hop picking but not much else. And I know after they lived on a small piece of land Just next to the Totham Common after her mother brought the plot & they got some old railway carriages they had as a base there, I know also my Great Grandad was Baptised in kent as Walter Webb but we have always been known as Witney's round here? & is also in his christening book, His mum was Mary Livermore, from(Bassingbourn, Royston, Melbourn,) Cambridge & Dad John Witney from Layer Breton, sometimes the Witney is spelt Whitney depends who was writing it (that still happens now). I know Mary's mother Sarah Ann Livermore who was also living at Bohemian Estate Eastwood when she past away in 1912. There is so much but I have little about the Romany Stone side so would be interested if you know anything thanks. I know we also have connections with the Cambridge area & Kent also Essex.

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