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Messages - McGroger

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1
Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs / Re: Creased: Uncle John Crum 1929
« on: Monday 04 August 25 23:31 BST (UK)  »
Neale, thanks so much for your thoughtful comments.

Rena, so glad I could help--and hope your computer is okay!

Peter

2
Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs / Re: Creased: Uncle John Crum 1929
« on: Monday 04 August 25 06:04 BST (UK)  »
Thanks, RJ; really appreciate your lovely comments. :)
Peter

3
Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs / Re: Creased: Uncle John Crum 1929
« on: Monday 04 August 25 02:21 BST (UK)  »
My try. :)
Peter

4
Seems to have dropped down the board. 1920s I think but wait for the experts to narrow it down.
Peter

5
Australia / Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« on: Friday 18 July 25 13:30 BST (UK)  »
YES, DONALD REALLY WAS DEAD

Then
In 2016 I asked Rootschatters to help me find what happened to my father’s uncle, Donald McGregor. The only clues I had were the words “Died 18 April 1937” written on Donald’s file by the army historian, articles in the Police Gazette that he’d been tried and convicted in Inverell, NSW of wife desertion then released by Wauchope police, and family lore that he committed suicide somewhere in the Riverina.

Rootschat members made 200 posts before the story was paused. We found that Donald was in West Wyalong (in the Riverina!) briefly in a grocery business as well as being a carpenter, both roles echoing those he had in Sydney before leaving his wife.

But we could find no source for the note on his army papers.

Now
On 8 July 2025 I received a message from a fellow Ancestry member who is doing a family tree for a granddaughter of a Roy Dundas, whose death was reported to the army in June 1937. They hit a snag: Roy Dundas was alive in 1938, living with his young family in rural Victoria.

The man who died was Donald McGregor!

[Please refer to the image below from the early part of the Army's investigation]


Roy and Donald probably met in France in 1917.

A copy of the memos from the army investigation was to be placed on Donald’s file. It appears they weren’t.

That omission contributed to a family mystery lasting 95 years: from 1930 till now.

This is what happened:

After his release by Wauchope police in 1930, Donald took the name of a man he’d met in the war, began (or resumed) a relationship with a part aboriginal woman named Beatrice Bugg, and fled west.

Beatrice’s descendants believe that “Roy Dundas” fathered 4 of Beatrice’s children:

Cecil Dundas Abt 1930–-21 Apr 1993 (No. 13429/1993, NSW, Mother Beatrice). Cecil is a doubtful son of Donald McGregor because: Donald only left his wife in 1930, the name Cecil appears nowhere in Donald’s family tree and Cecil’s death registration notes that the father is “unknown”.

Donald Dundas 29 Jan 1933 (Bingara, NSW)—22 Apr 1988 (No. 11827/1988, Dubbo, NSW, Father Roy, Mother Beatrice). Donald is a probable. A McGregor using an alias would quite likely use his own real first name for his first born son.

June Dundas 11 October 1935 (Peak Hill, NSW)—?. June is a possible. It’s a stretch, but “June” could refer to Donald’s father, John, with whom he’d been in business before the desertion.

Ken Dundas 23 Jul 1936 (NSW)—25 January 2019 (NSW, Buried Coonabarabran, NSW). Ken Dundas did not marry. Ken is another possible.

The Dundas researcher wants a member of her client’s family to do a DNA test. So far, there’s some resistance.

I’d speculated that Donald’s war experiences left him infertile. (He had no children with his wife.) But if he later had children with Beatrice, he clearly was not infertile.

Before marrying Donald in 1917, Effie Turnbull had married a James Munro, in 1912. They had one son, in 1912. But this baby lived for only 7 days. They had no other children before James died in the war. After Donald, Effie married a third time, again with no offspring. It seems Effie, not Donald, was unable to have viable children.

Donald apparently lived with Beatrice Bugg between 1930 and 1937 in different parts of western NSW. And tried to improve his lot by taking on the grocery business in 1934, but failed due to his war-caused illnesses (PTSD, and he was gassed, causing chronic throat and stomach problems that eventually killed him).

I think Donald left Beatrice temporarily—for the 3 months he spent in West Wyalong—then returned to her and their children. They settled in Dubbo, before his life ended in Royal Prince Alfred Hospital, Sydney, just a few miles from where he had left his first marriage 7 years earlier.

I hope Donald, who had had a rough trot most of his earlier life, had some joy in his secret life with Beatrice.

And, hey! I now have some new second cousins.



[See a copy of the death certificate below]

The Death Certificate
Roy Dundas’s occupation is given as Carpenter. Donald was a carpenter. The real Roy Dundas was a saddler.
The cause of death fits with Donald’s war-related illnesses.
The deceased is Not Married. And the informant is B. Dundas, No Relation. In fact she was his defacto widow, Beatrice Bugg.
His parents are Unknown. In fact they were John McGregor and Mary Brickley.

A Newspaper Clipping
Beatrice had another child in 1938. In a newspaper article the child was born to Mr Roy and Mrs Dundas. However the registration version says the father is Unknown. And Roy/Donald died too soon to have been the father. It seems Beatrice had started another relationship shortly after Roy/Donald’s death, while to the world at large she was still thought of as Mrs Roy Dundas.

Donald McGregor’s Resting Place
The remains of Donald McGregor, alias Roy Dundas, lie here: Grave 4739, Zone D Section 14 at Rookwood General Cemetery.


Thank you
To all Rootschat members who helped or who have just taken an interest in this long search (Jamjar, rosball, majm, Rosinish, cando, judb, Rena, sparret, Ruskie, Pheno, phenolphthalein and brigidmac), and to the Dundas family’s researcher, Robyn Knight,

Thank You, So Much.

Peter

6
Rami, I think you’re asking the wrong question. Not many people care about the process. They care about the result.

I think a better question is: What do Rootschatters want from a restoration?

I don’t profess to know what Rootschatters want, but I believe I can make a distinction between members of Rootschat and the general public. And then I can say what I would want from any restorer to whom I entrusted the job of restoration of one of my family photos.

Most members of Rootschat are serious about their family history—otherwise they wouldn’t be here. Genealogists are serious about detail. We spend thousands of hours researching that detail. We are trustees of our family’s precious history.

In 2016 I posted a question to Rootschat’s Australia board. After 200 posts from several members over 7 months that thread was paused. Yep, Rootschatters are serious historians!

An old family photo is not just an old family photo. It’s a source of family history. A very precious source. The adage, “ a picture is worth a thousand words”, is no less true today than it was when first used over 100 years ago.

But, to a genealogist, it’s only worth 1,000 words if the details in that picture are as faithfully preserved as the details in any other source used by that genealogist.

I try to remember these things when I’m doing a restore for someone.

So, if another restorer asked me the question—what would you like from my restore of this picture of your grandfather and his siblings?—I might put it like this:

“Please…Imagine Adobe’s next big thing, in collaboration with Elon Musk, is a drone that can go back in time and copy photos. That’s what I want. Failing that, I want something that is as close as possible to that, something that preserves all the original detail, the texture, the ‘look’ of the photo (as it would have been in 1919), all this, including the frame, so that it gives me (and more importantly, my grandchildren and their grandchildren) a ‘real’ picture of what people, life and photos themselves were like back then.”

Peter

7
My effort. :)
Peter

8
Late go from me. :)
Peter

9
Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs / Re: Low Quality Photograph
« on: Wednesday 02 July 25 13:21 BST (UK)  »
Thanks, Carol.
Hope it's not too long a wait and everything goes well for you.
Peter

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