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Messages - Eppingjewish

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1
Norfolk / Re: Jewish community Diss 1700's
« on: Monday 11 July 16 14:42 BST (UK)  »
JustinL,

Thank you for that. It is very interesting but that suggests Baptists from the 1810s in the area and my relatives have Hebrew names earlier than that period including more obscure ones such as Jabez.

Also did you see what I wrote about things like the beards, niece-uncle marriages etc.

In terms of autosomal DNA yes it was partly Ashkenazi and I understand about similarities with groups such as Italians etc.

My autosomal DNA is British Isles, Scandinavian, Sami, Italian, Other Southern European as well as the Ashkenazi part.

Another thing is that one of my relatives is a Thirza and that Hebrew name only tends to be used in the Netherlands so I'm not sure if it would really be used by English Non-conformists.

I used a fairly reputable company, DNA worldwide.

Regards,

Nicky

2
Norfolk / Re: Jewish community Diss 1700's
« on: Monday 11 July 16 12:14 BST (UK)  »
Dear Marmalady,

Yes if I discover further information I'll let you know.

Regards,

Nicky

3
Norfolk / Re: Jewish community Diss 1700's
« on: Monday 11 July 16 12:12 BST (UK)  »
Dear Bookbox,

Thank you for that link. It was very interesting.

Regards,

Nicky

4
Norfolk / Re: Jewish community Diss 1700's
« on: Monday 11 July 16 11:58 BST (UK)  »
Dear JustinL,

Thank you for those links. I will check them all out. I understand that there was indeed a large Baptist and other non-conformist population in rural areas as you say however the reason I'm convinced this is not the case with my family is due to the following:

My great grandmother who is the descendent of this line was often stopped in the streets in London in the early 20th century and asked by Jewish people if she was Jewish. I undertook a genetic DNA test which shows that I have some Ashkenazi ancestry and it doesn't plausibly fit with any other branch of my family history through naming and other processes of elimination. Reading up on naming practices amongst non-conformist Christians and Jews, non-conformists who used Biblical names tended to give each child an Old Testament name whereas Jewish families would often only name some children with Hebrew names and give the others non-religious secular names, this fits with my Solomon Rayner who has Arun, Naome, Nathan as siblings but then others with names such as Edgar, Harriet etc. Finally on the Harvey line there were Harvey members in villages close to Hoxne who anecdotally were said to have looked Jewish in the early 1800s because of their dark features and dark hair. Two members of the family were said to wear skull caps and have long beards. In early 19th century England beards were not worn but Jewish people over Europe did have beards at that time. I thought the skull cap could be a confusion for a smoking cap but even smoking caps were not popularised until after the Crimean war. Finally it is another annecdote that one of these Harvey's was cast out from his village for twice marrying his niece, this is permitted under Jewish law but not under English Law or Church Canon Law.

That is why I'm pretty convinced that this family was unlikely to be non-conformists.

Regards,

Nicky

5
Norfolk / Re: Jewish community Diss 1700's
« on: Monday 11 July 16 04:33 BST (UK)  »
Dear Marmalady,

I came across your post and found it very interesting as I'm having some similar issues. My ancestors were Rayners and Harveys from the Norfolk/Suffolk border area around Diss and particularly Hoxne. There was a historical Jewish community in Diss officially until 1290 when all Jews were expelled from England. It is likely however that at least some converted to Christianity or went undercover. I have in my family a similar thing to you where children have many Hebrew names such as Arun, Naome, Solomon, Nathan etc. There are also others with names such as Thirza and Jabez.

Have you undertaken a genetic DNA test as that's what first pointed to my Ashkenazi ancestors.

It would be interesting to hear from you as its the same area, the same time period and we seem to have some similar experiences.

Regards,

Nicky

6
Norfolk / Re: Ephraim Harvey from Wilby
« on: Friday 10 June 16 06:22 BST (UK)  »
As my Harvey's are around Wilby, Stradbroke and Debenham then Rishangles is in a triangle just slightly to the west. So I'm pretty sure there will be a connection somewhere.

7
Norfolk / Re: Ephraim Harvey from Wilby
« on: Friday 10 June 16 06:18 BST (UK)  »
Dear 329 Dolphin,

Thank you for that. Yes the connection could be a little further back as it's unlikely for people of the same surname in the same or neighbouring villages not to be related.

My Jewish ancestry is at lest 4 per cent and possibly higher.

Regards,

Nicky

8
Suffolk / Re: Jewish family in rural Suffolk?
« on: Wednesday 08 June 16 22:18 BST (UK)  »
Dear Islasgranny,

That is very interesting. Do you know what time period that dates to as I know the period I'm currently upto is the late 18th century/early 19th century. My Rayner/Harvey family is primarily in the area around Hoxne, Wilby, Stradbroke, Debenham.

Regards,

Nicky

9
Norfolk / Re: Ephraim Harvey from Wilby
« on: Wednesday 08 June 16 17:41 BST (UK)  »
Dear Annette,

Thank you very much. Yes that would seem to fit as there appears to be no reference anywhere to a Harriet in terms of births or baptisms. I rechecked the censuses and even in the 1881 census her place of birth is still recorded as Debenham, so that does seem to be a more likely match as I'm pretty sure that she was likely born in Debenham since it's listed in the censuses.

Thank you for that.

Warm regards,

Nicky

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