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I've found the answer to the Otelberg problem-- 10 years late. This is actually Ortelsburg in East Prussia, Germany(now Szczytno in Poland). I have scans from the local registrar from 1878 with the family name Rothstein.

Hi Gypsy, That's really interesting that you met my Grandmother. At that time she was living in the East End on Commercial Rd in a block of flats on the corner of the Wentworth St near Petticoat Lane. I remember when I was little my grandparents lived in Poplar, then moved to Putney, but by the 60s they would have been back in the East End.

I am not able to get any more information than you. I use "familysearch.org" and "myheritage.com" to glean any information I can plus anything else I can scrounge. I think the records are just not there on the internet maybe not anywhere. My dad moved out of the East End after the war, so we didn't get to know many of the relatives there. I imagine to dig any further you'd need to go to the records office in Kew or locally in the East End. Being in Australia I don't have that option.

Anyway, best wishes to you and yours, and let us know if you get any further.

Ian

Hi, Regarding my grandmother (birth name Rottstein). Her first name was Clara, although it seems from different documents I've found she also went by the name of Clarice. Born around 1894 she married John Fresco (my grandfather on my father's side) in 1917. I remember her as a real East Ender and could speak cockney back slang. Looking at the dates that come up: Reuben was born around 1860 and he writes that he came from Germany several times in the different censuses (written in his own hand in the 1911 census). He married Ada in 1883 in London, but by 1884 they were in Bristol, evidenced by censuses stating the first born Abraham was born there. Interestingly enough Abraham seems to have changed his name to Albert according to the 1911 census. Getting back to Reuben. The only evidence of his birth town that I've found is the mysterious 1901 census where the census taker has written a name that would appear to be "Otelberg". I think the census taker probably wrote down what Reuben had told him as best he could-- as he heard it, and he thought he said Otelberg-- just some Londoner trying to figure out what this German fellow was saying (he described himself as a German Subject on the 1901 census). It seems to me any investigation into Reuben's birthplace must begin with this mysterious Otelberg place. So my best guess is that it's a place that sounds like Otelberg, but certainly in Germany. On the other hand Germany was not a federated state at the time of Reuben's birth, but why would he say that he was born in Germany if he wasn't?

He obviously came to England between 1860 (birth in Germany) and 1883 (marriage in London). I can't find many other Rottstein's in England in the 19th century, so my best guess would be he came to England around 1881 when he would be free (at 21) giving him time to woo Ada and be married 2 years later. All guess work, but seems logical.

All for now.

Ian