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Hi yes John Holmes was definitely a hawker as it states this on Margaretta Ann's birth certificate that I've already got.  As for the marriage of Miriam and John all I know from the records index is that it's Miriam Lloyd and John Holmes - marriage - Ruthin, June quarter, 1866, Vol 11b Page 621 but I have no idea where I need to go to look this up?

I'm not too sure where Llandegla is and Ruthin seems quite a way from Llangollen, but maybe that's just where the marriages were recorded as against being the place of marriage?

Thanks Gadget

Hi all

I see it's some years since this exchange happened so hope you're still around.  I am Miriam Lloyd's great great grand-daughter.  Her daughter Margaretta Ann was my great grandmother and Margaretta's son, John William Holmes was my paternal grandfather.

I'm yet to work out all that's been said in the trail but let me tell you what I know.  Miriam had 4 children in total, John Roberts (about whom I can't find out anything) and then Emmanuel and Zachariah.  All were born illegitimately but then in 1866 she married John Holmes, hence my great great grandmother taking the legitimate name of Holmes.  She had a son prior to my grandad but that was also illegitimate and he died as a young child (born 1889 and died 1890 and also called Zechariah).  Margaretta was in service in Llangollen and that's where she conceived my grandad.  They lived there until he was 18 and then they moved to Rhyl on the coast.

My suspicions, albeit possibly unfounded, are that grandad's father was a Joseph Davies of Salop, Oswestry, Shropshire. Only he and she were in service in the house in 1891 at 34 Regent St, Llangollen, LL20 8HW.  The house still stands.  My grandfather was born 1892.  Margaretta never married and had a tough life.  She died in 1934 vol 11B page 357 of the England Wales death index 1916-2007.  She is buried in Rhyl with my aunt (Glenys) who died as a child of meningitus.

Re Miriam, as stated she did marry John Holmes but from what I can gather, he died very shortly after Margaretta's birth, hence Miriam in 1871 in the census living with her mother Margaret now aged 89, her 2 sons Zachariah and Emmanuel and 4 year old Margaretta Ann.

I would love to hear from any distant relatives so hope this is picked up.  My dad (Noel Holmes) is 85 and he is the son of John William.  I am putting together both of my parents family histories on ancestry. 

Best regards