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Messages - Inge

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Canada / Re: A Rose by any other name, Charles Rose R.N and Mrs Rose
« on: Thursday 14 January 16 19:59 GMT (UK)  »
Hello, I'm glad it wasn't my error, but an error in the Parliamtentary Papers. Still, it does show how errors creep into history. Inge

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Canada / Re: A Rose by any other name, Charles Rose R.N and Mrs Rose
« on: Tuesday 08 December 15 21:07 GMT (UK)  »
This is very likely the Charles Rose I was talking about. He was promoted in 1815, but I didn't find his name via the British National Archives, so thanks for this new information. He is listed in Parliamentary Papers, House of Commons and Command, volume 31 as having been granted land (105  acres) in Canada, township of Upton (in 1837) for services in navy by authority from the Admiralty. He had two children, Elizabeth (b. 1831) and Hugh Ebenezer (1833) born in Devonport who would have been young adults by the time their parents tragically drowned in the shipwreck.

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Canada / Re: A Rose by any other name, Charles Rose R.N and Mrs Rose
« on: Monday 07 December 15 20:27 GMT (UK)  »
Could this be the Charles Rose named by his uncle, commander James Rose, RN, as an heir in his will,
available from the British National Archives. James Rose states that Charles, son of his brother Alexander Rose, was a lieutenant RN and is in Canada. The will dates from 1838, with an update increasing the sum to be inherited by Charles, in 1840. James Rose is from Nairn Scotland, I have not found his brother Alexander, but the entries so far suggests this Charles could be the same who later drowned.

4
Hello, I have since found out many more details, but there is no trace of the second child, Ellen who was born in London in 1843. In 1847, she and her older sister are mentioned is their grandfather Joseph Stilon's will, and in 1851 both are living or staying with their aunt, Melita Mends nee Stilon in Alverstoke. Their mother, Catherine Colonna nee Stilon, died in London in 1845, and Melita Jane died in 1854, but so far nothing has emerged regarding Ellen's fate. Information on family tree I have says she and her sister died of consumption as a children, but this isn't necessarily completely correct. As for Edward Frederick Green, he exhibited many times at the Royal Academy and the British Institution, so he was definitely an artist. One of his portraits (of a young man) is in the possession of the Art Gallery of the Guildhall.

I don't know if I should give up on gaining more information about Ellen's life or death.

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Hi, I have discovered that both Catherine Colonna Green (wife of Edward Frederick Green and Melita Jane Green, their first daughter, born in 1841 in Malta) are buried together with Harriet Green and other members of the Edward Frederick Green's family at Kensal Green Cemetery, but I am still wondering what happened to the second daughter, Ellen Green. Ellen is named as a beneficiary in a will by her grandfather Joseph (otherwise Guiseppe) Stilon, a Royal Navy Surgeon in Malta of Italian origin. I obtained the official translation of the will, originally written in Italian, from the British National Archives. Ellen Green is described as "granddaughter, child of my late daughter Catherine Colonna Green." Catherine Colonna died in 1845, but the will indicates that Ellen was still living in 1947. Shortly after his wife's death EFG sold all his paintings, copies of old masters, and curiosities at an auction by Foster autioneers (advertised in "The Atheneum") prior to "progressing to India."  That he did go to India is pretty certain because some paintings he exhibited at the British Institution and Royal Academy were painted in India, and his address is listed as Bombay. It could be that he took his daughters with him, of course, and that Ellen died in India, or that family tree information about her dying as a child is incorrect. It also seems certain he was back in Malta in 1848, because he is listed as one of the chief mourners at Joseph Stilon's funeral. Any pointers as to how to find out more about Ellen's fate would be appreciated.

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Dear ShaunJ, Thanks for the additional information about Catherine Colonna and the fact that she is buried with Harriet Green establishes, as far as I am concerned, that the Edward Frederich Green, the painter, is the son of John and Harriet listed by Valda as baptized at St. Botolph's Bishopsgate (and that the birth year supplied by the auction houses such as Tennants is wrong).

I still wonder about why his name is not coming up together with the other brothers, nor why James Moring Green is not mentioned either even though EFG's visits to Greece and Egypt may be due to the family's link to the Levant Company. I also wonder whether EFG died abroad and what happened to the other daughter, Ellen Green, probably born in 1843, but which time the family was no longer in Malta.
Might there be a way to find out if EFG received some training in painting in London?

It is interesting that John Green is listed as "late of New Bond Street" in the other Green thread, and that EFG lived at New Bond Street in 1824 when he first exhibited at the Royal Academy. I'll surf the web some more, but thanks a lot for the info so far. Inge

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You are right, in the sense that that other rootchat about Greens appears, at least in part, be about the same family. I also agree that some of the information in my earlier reply may be of interest to those focusing on John Green father and son. However, my focus is on whether and how these are connected to Edward Frederick Green, the painter. I could enter some of the information I gathered into that other rootchat, perhaps? What do you think?

Although EF Green the painter exhibited frequently in London, little is known about his earlier life.
I am more and more convinced that he is the one listed by Valda among the sons of John Green, and was born in 1801, or at least baptized then (this although auction houses in London list him with a birth year of 1767).

Feel free to move my reply, unless you think it could be confusing to the people interested primarily in John Green.

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I'm a little surprised this topic is regarded as completed. So far I have only found out the death date of one of EFG's daughters, Melita Jane (from the entry by Mabel Bagshawe). I have not found out where EFG died, nor anything more about his life. I am not even absolutely sure that the EFG listed by Valda in another topic is the painter, though the circumstantial  evidence is pretty convincing.  It is interesting that the address given for Melita Jane Green is the same listed for EFG for his last exhibition at the Royal Academy in 1851. Since EFG supposedly died in 1851, I wonder if she lived at that address with other Greens or with relatives on her mother's side.

I was hoping that, by finding out more about EFG's extended family, I might find out more about him. Thanks to the Valda entry in another Green Rootschap, I did come across a "List of British Consular Officieals in the Ottoman Empire...."  one entry in this list about John Green lists him as Vice Consult at Nauplia, Greece, and says his father was John Green, Treasurer of the Levant Company and his mother was Harriet Staniforth; furthermore, his brothers are P.J. and R.L. Green at Patras (in consular service). Their son was a very well known person, William Mackenzie Green who died as agent and Consul General at Tangier in 1891. There are other entries for Greens in this extended family in this list.

I am wondering if there are any living descendants who might know something about Edward Frederick Green, the portrait painter and painter of exotic subjects (including the Moroccan Courtship painting for
which several outfits offer copies on the web).


9
Thanks very much. This is new information.

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