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Messages - Davedrave

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1
World War One / Re: Which RFA brigade did Walter Sayers serve with?
« on: Wednesday 01 October 25 10:51 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: scrimnet on Tuesday 30 September 25 18:40 BST (UK)
In 1916 the Territorial Force Regimental Numbers (no such thing as a Service Number in the Army) were reoriganised.
The top number on the MIC clearly states TF.

Add to this the problem of the huge size of the RA at this time...

And then add that any soldier injured was not necessarily returned to his original unit....He was sent as to where he was required.

This is why you can see up to FIVE different Regiments and Corps on one MIC

Thanks. It seems likely, taking all this into account, that Walter Sayers’s service was with 3/4 N. Midland Brigade TF RFA, which became part of 298 Army Brigade RFA, and that he served in this unit until his period of sick leave in England in November 1917. Then, maybe, he returned to active service in 64 Army Brigade. (However, I don’t know how service with 240 Army Brigade would fit in with this scenario.) I wonder whether it may be relevant to the award of his Belgian Croix de Guerre that 64 Brigade was supporting the Belgian Division for some time in September 1918, during the advance in Flanders.

Dave  :)

2
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Army stamp
« on: Tuesday 30 September 25 17:16 BST (UK)  »
Thanks. I wonder if there are any suggestions for the word at top right?

Dave :)

3
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Army stamp
« on: Tuesday 30 September 25 09:24 BST (UK)  »
Admittedly, this isn’t actually handwriting, but I’d be very grateful for any interpretations of this stamp. I think I know what it possibly reads, but any suggestions for filling in, based on what can be read, and the likely letter spacings, would be helpful.

Dave :)

4
World War One / Re: Which RFA brigade did Walter Sayers serve with?
« on: Saturday 27 September 25 15:19 BST (UK)  »
Thanks all for your help. If anything, the plot seems to have thickened, but such is life.

Dave :)

5
World War One / Re: Which RFA brigade did Walter Sayers serve with?
« on: Saturday 27 September 25 08:04 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Andy J2022 on Friday 26 September 25 20:50 BST (UK)
Quote from: Davedrave on Friday 26 September 25 20:35 BST (UK)
I suppose that having served with horse-drawn artillery, Walter was the sort of soldier who would probably have been pretty used to handling horses.
Given his occupation in later life, he was also probably quite used to dealing with dead animal skins!

Yes, although I’m not sure whether he’d taken up his forefathers’ occupation before he joined up, since he was a grocer’s errand boy in 1911. Also, I think the animals in the camp were passed on to dealers, and the unfortunate ones didn’t meet their fates there.

I now realise that an excerpt from a document posted on the Great War forum is possibly from a medal roll. He is mistakenly listed as Sayer, and unfortunately there seems to be little information. I have located that post now. This is a link:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/287690-help-with-understanding-service-record-please/

Dave :)

6
World War One / Re: Which RFA brigade did Walter Sayers serve with?
« on: Friday 26 September 25 20:35 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Andy J2022 on Friday 26 September 25 19:38 BST (UK)
I was hoping to find him in the absentee voters electoral register for 1919 which would have shown his unit, but only found him back at home in 1920.

Also, did you note that when he was demobbed at Arques on 18 Sep 1919 his unit was shown as 5th AACC. I don't recognise this abbreviation. AAC (in this context) can stand for Auxiliary Ammunition Column but the stamp on his discharge sheet says No5 Area Animal Camp, so possibly the AACC was something to do with that (?Area Animal Collection or Concentration Centre?).

Thanks for this, and for drawing my attention to his alternative service number on the MIC. I see that the unit given on that line appears to be “ditto”, referring to the “RFA” on the line above.

Re the camp at Arques, I think it was No. 5 Area Animal Concentration Camp, and would have dealt with horses and mules no longer required by the army, the unfortunate creatures brought together for “disposal”. (I found a reference online to a horse concentration camp in England in 1917). I suppose that having served with horse-drawn artillery, Walter was the sort of soldier who would probably have been pretty used to handling horses.

7
World War One / Re: Which RFA brigade did Walter Sayers serve with?
« on: Friday 26 September 25 18:22 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for your answers. It all seems very confusing. I’ve tried to reduce the size of a page of his record so that I can post it here, but unfortunately can’t seem to get it to shrink enough!

I have downloaded the war diaries of 298 Army Brigade RFA and 64 Brigade, and both units were active in Belgium, which may be relevant to his Belgian Croix de Guerre? Unfortunately, the 64 Brigade war diaries I can see on the NA website don’t seem to go beyond July 1918. Since Walter wasn’t demobilised until later in 1919, I wonder if it is possible that he could have been moved from 298 Brigade to 64 Brigade after hostilities had ended? Certainly the 298 Brigade diary suggests that that unit was being wound up in February 1919. But I wonder where 240 Brigade fits in? His record only seems to mention 3/4 N. Midland (which was absorbed into 298) and D/64 (his final unit? this is the unit given in the 1919 Gazette record).

Dave :)

8
World War One / Which RFA brigade did Walter Sayers serve with?
« on: Friday 26 September 25 10:21 BST (UK)  »
I thought a while ago that I had a reasonably good idea of where Walter Sayers of Derby served in the RFA, having had help some years ago on the Great War Forum (which I no longer seem able to access). However, coming to write it up, I’m now rather confused.

What I know:

Joined up in Derby 1st April 1916 - 3/4 N. Midland (H) Brigade. Number 1885

As I understand it, this unit became part of 298 Army Brigade RFA in early 1917.

Awarded Belgian Croix de Guerre in 1919. (The Gazette, 4|9|19 p.11223). Service number 826633. Bombardier (Acting Corporal) D/64th Brigade RFA.

An entry on his (rather sketchy) burnt record appears to mention 298th Brigade. So, did he move at some stage to 64th Brigade from 298th Brigade? He seems to have been sick in England at some point. Might he have changed units on return to the front? (Even more confusingly, the Long, Long Trail website suggests that his number 826633 would have related to 240th Brigade.)

Also, I don’t seem able to locate the war diary for 64th Brigade.

Dave  :)



9
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Army record
« on: Friday 05 September 25 10:14 BST (UK)  »
Many thanks all for your help. I am currenntly writing an account of Walter’s time in the army, as far as possible, given the general anonymity of the lower ranks in the army. 298 Brigade seems to have had a very active war, from Messines through to the Sambre, and Walter seems to have been very lucky, seeming not to have been wounded. If he was in England sick in November 1917, that seems to have been one of the few quieter times for the brigade. I think he was probably quite a good soldier, since he ended up acting corporal and was awarded a Belgian Croix de Guerre in 1919.

Dave :)


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