Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - laurelnaiad

Pages: [1]
1
Derbyshire / Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« on: Monday 18 May 15 03:05 BST (UK)  »
Such a death date is certainly "handy" when you're trying to explain why Thomas Wandell (Susannah's brother) apparently "swooped in" and took their son Richard off to America.... that date fits with such a story very conveniently.  Almost too conveneniently, I fear....

That said, the people who were originally writing in the 1800s of Thomas Wandell's adoption of Richard seemed to  know nothing about the Wandells and Alsops in England when they described the adoption, and such an issue is more of an American concern than a British one anyway, so 1668 probably isn't just derived from that supposition nor vice-versa.

2
Derbyshire / Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« on: Sunday 17 May 15 20:17 BST (UK)  »
Thank you, janan!

> The James buried in Wirksworth on 26 Jul 1665 is listed as 'son of James', the only son of James is baptised 1651.

But there are three Jameses in a row, at least according to http://www.elkes.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=elkes&view=86&pid=3715&ver=704 ... so the two who died in the 1660s would both be sons of one James or the other, at least according to that tree.

>  he was still alive on Jan 1st 1667 when Susanna was buried in Wirksworth as she is transcribed as 'wife of James' not 'widow', unless this is a mistake.

Ahh. :) I see that, now. Thank you for catching me up, my long lost cousin!

Frustrating that we're missing the middle James' death/burial info -- how has everyone concluded that he died in 1668, then, I wonder?

3
Derbyshire / Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« on: Saturday 16 May 15 01:54 BST (UK)  »
I see now that there are two James Allsops dying in the 1660s in http://www.elkes.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=elkes&view=8&ver=704&lastname=Allsop . Great work on that,by the way!!!

Would a fourteen-year-old be listed as a husbandman and have a will/inventory? I ask because the one listed as dying in 1665 in that tree was 14 years old and the *son* of the other.... is it possible their dates are "backwards" in the tree? Or would a 14 year old be listed as husbandman and have a will/inventory? I'm not asking facetiously -- I really don't know whether the age of majority in England in the 1600s was still that young (I know it was so in earlier times)....

4
Derbyshire / Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« on: Saturday 16 May 15 01:29 BST (UK)  »
I know I'm reviving an old thread, but it's a good one.  8)

The date is iffy. Here are some conflicting sources:

According to Destruction of the Alsop House (Brooklyn Eagle, March 28, 1880):

"Thomas Wandell was the founder of the Alsop family, through Richard Alsop, his nephew, whom he brought from England, while a mere boy, about the year 1665 and adopted as his son and heir."

According to the American Historical Magazine, Volume II, January, 1907 to November, 1907 (The Americana Society, 1907; page 272):

"The first of the name in America was Richard Alsop, who inherited from his uncle, Thomas Wandell, a large estate of Newtown, Long Island. Richard Alsop came to this country between 1670 and 1685, and d. October 17, 1718."

According to Illustrated History of the Borough of Queens New York City (George Von Skal, 1908; page ):

"The Alsop family was also among the early settlers. Richard Alsop, the first of the name to locate here, came at the request of his uncle, one Thomas Wandell, who was said to have left England because he had become involved in a quarrel with Oliver Cromwell, though this report is doubtful, for it is known that Wandell was living at Mespat Kills in 1648, or before Charles I was put to death. He had secured a considerable tract of land by patents and purchase which he left to his nephew, Richard Alsop. The family he founded became extinct in 1837 when the last of the name died without issue."

According to this last one, I don't exist.  :o

Also, I believe the first two of the above quotations are mistaken in that they assume Richard Alsop to be the first Alsop in America ..

The American Historical Magazine statement that Richard is the first colonial Alsop is wrong -- they are different Alsops. Joseph of New Haven, CT, if he's related to Richard of Newtown, NY at all, is only distantly related "way back" in England.  Illustrated History of the Borough of Queens says "first to locate here" which is true if "here" is Newtown, Queens, New York.  ;)

Reasons why Richard of Newtown was the son of James Alsop and Susannah Wandell:

  • Their child Richard was born 29 Nov 1659 (old style): "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3L6-Z6F : accessed 15 May 2015), Richard Allsope, 27 Nov 1659; citing Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England, reference 2:3T197L3; FHL microfilm 1,041,042. -- this is, for all intents and purposes the same date as the American Richard.
  • They both died in the 1660s.
  • Thomas Wandell, Richard's uncle, is Susannah's older brother:
    ** "England, Derbyshire, Church of England Parish Registers, 1537-1918," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KBD6-RXL : accessed 15 May 2015), Thomas Wandell, 09 Apr 1625; citing Christening, All Saints Church, Derby, Derbyshire, England, Record Office, Matlock; FHL microfilm 1,041,144.
    ** "England, Derbyshire, Church of England Parish Registers, 1537-1918," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KBD6-T2H : accessed 16 May 2015), Zuzanna Wandell, 18 Jun 1628; citing Christening, All Saints Church, Derby, Derbyshire, England, Record Office, Matlock; FHL microfilm 1,041,144.
  • Richard named one of his daughters Susannah (admittedly a pretty weak bit of evidence but it adds to all of the above)

Indeed, it looks like these two Wandells were two of perhaps eight children of Richard Wandell and an unknown mother who were baptised in the 1620s and 1630s in All Saints Church, Derby: https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=50&query=%2Bsurname%3Awandell~%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22all%20saints%2C%20derbyshire%22~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1610-1630~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Arichard~


I have that James died: 1668, Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England. I know of only Richard being brought to America. Probably after both parents died, the older children were looking for others to help raise the kids, so Uncle Thomas Wandell must have volunteered to adopt Richard. Do you know who raised Wandell?

I believe it might have been a tad earlier (unless perhaps you have better information?  :o )... I see this:

d. 26 Jul 1665 (old style)
"England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NG9D-FQL : accessed 16 May 2015), James, 26 Jul 1665; citing Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,041,042.

and this:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=origins%2flichfieldconsistory%2f553 -- requires payment :( -- (what it says is that James Allsop was a husbandman whose will and inventory are on record in Lichfield Consistory Court Wills, as being from Ashelyhay, Wirksworth, proved 1666).

I would love to get my hands on that will! -- and if it's pertinent to this Alsop family, the bible records that `janan` mentioned!

Regards,
Daphne Maddox (one of the many 11th great-grandchildren of James and Susannah through Richard)  :)

Pages: [1]