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Messages - John Woods

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1
Surrey Lookup Requests / Re: A Jewish ancestor Mary Ann Lord bagsot
« on: Thursday 11 June 15 10:21 BST (UK)  »
In answer to Nanny Jan's question, the evidence for Mary Ann being born in Bagshot is the birthplace recorded in the 1851 and 1861 census. She was a widow in 1851 and 1861, her husband George WEST having died in 1849.  The writing looks like "Bayshot", Surrey, but I'm pretty sure there is no such place. I've checked a number of other people who seem to be born in "Bayshot" and evidence for several points to Bagshot.

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London & Middlesex Lookup Requests / Re: Henry DAVIS, piano maker, and Louisa Harriet WEST
« on: Monday 08 June 15 13:16 BST (UK)  »
Hi Viv,

I've failed to come up with any Jewish connection yet for the WEST/LORD family. In fact, it looks to me very likely that the mother of Harriet Ann WEST and Louisa Harriet was baptised Mary Ann LAIRD in Windlesham, Surrey, on 8 July 1792. I have a copy of the baptism register entry. LAIRD and LORD are variants of each other, and there were a number of LAIRDs in Bagshot and Windlesham. They appear in the Anglican church register with no indication of being Jewish that I've seen.
Is it possible that Louisa Harriet's husband Henry DAVIS was Jewish? Perhaps the marriage of Louisa Harriet and Henry happened in a synagogue, and somehow never got entered in the British marriage index.


3
Surrey Lookup Requests / Re: A Jewish ancestor Mary Ann Lord bagsot
« on: Monday 08 June 15 13:05 BST (UK)  »
I believe that Mary Ann Lord is one of my ancestors. I've been researching this branch of my family for many years. There is only *one* link between Mary Ann Lord and me. This is an 1859 marriage certificate from Victoria Australia. On 30 May 1859 at Saint Peter's Church, Melbourne, the marriage took place of my ancestors John FARTHING and Harriet Ann WEST. Harriet's parents are stated on the certificate to be George WEST and Mary LORD or LORDS. After many years of research, there is no other document I've seen that states Harriet's mother's maiden name. Harriet Ann WEST was baptised on 12 June 1836 at St Luke's Old Street, Middlesex, England. She had many older brothers and sisters but none younger that I know of (if there were younger siblings, the mother's maiden name would be on the birth certificate). There was a family story that Harriet had a Jewish connection. I've never yet seen any written confirmation of this. I strongly suspect that Mary Ann LORD (born Bagshot) is the same person as Mary Ann LAIRD, baptised 8 July 1792 at Windlesham, Surrey, daughter of William and Elizabeth. There were a number of Lairds in Bagshot.

4
London & Middlesex Lookup Requests / Re: Henry DAVIS, piano maker, and Louisa Harriet WEST
« on: Sunday 01 February 15 05:29 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks, CaroleW, for some good ideas. My first ports of call will be Scottish records, and looking under Henry DAVIES.

I've come across a number of examples of couples presenting as a married couple in the 19th century when they in reality weren't, but found that in general the reason was that one of the parties was already legally married to someone else. I guess there are other reasons, such as a religious difference between the parties, or possibly parental disapproval.

The family story about the WEST family of Louisa is that there is a Jewish connection, but I haven't found it yet (after years of on and off research).

I'll post here when I have more findings

John

5
London & Middlesex Lookup Requests / Henry DAVIS, piano maker, and Louisa Harriet WEST
« on: Saturday 31 January 15 13:10 GMT (UK)  »
I am looking for clues as to the marriage, or lack of, of Henry DAVIS and Louisa Harriet WEST.

The couple had three known children, all baptised 19 July 1845 at St Pancras. Dates of birth are as stated in baptism register:

Henry DAVIS                    25 September 1841
Alfred William DAVIS         12 June       1843 (date confirmed by birth certificate)
Louisa Mary DAVIS             30 June 1845

The two first born children may have died young, as they don't appear with their parents in the 1851 or 1861 census.

Henry DAVIS senior's occupation was Music Smith (1843) Piano Forte Maker (1845) and Harp Maker (1851). The address of the family was 31 Melton Crescent (1843) and 26 Seymour St, St Pancras  [not sure about the "street"] (1851).

Henry senior was born about 1819-1821 in Pancras or Marylebone, from 1851 and 1861 census.

Louisa Harriet was the daughter of George WEST and Mary Ann, baptised at Saint Luke Old Street 14 Sept 1823, and born at Saint Lukes probably 1820-1823.

All efforts to find the marriage of Henry and Louisa have so far failed, including FreeBMD, Ancestry, the IGI and Pallot's Index. Indirect evidence points to the marriage happening no earlier than 1838. Louisa's age would make this unlikely anyway.

Any ideas on this one?

Regards
John in New Zealand





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London and Middlesex / Re: George Henry SANDERSON, death 1855, Islington
« on: Friday 30 January 15 05:28 GMT (UK)  »
Good evening Chempat

I now have some answers on George Henry Sanderson! The death certificate arrived today (it took 7 days from when it was sent from England). It *was* my George Henry Sanderson who died in Islington in 1855. He died 10 January 1855 at 4 Thornhill Street aged 37 years. Occupation was cigar manufacturer; cause of death: Chronic Bronchitis, 14 years ; Informant: John Shaw, present at death, 3 and a half Noble Street, St Lukes. John Shaw was his brother-in-law.
The exact date of death may make it easier for me to find a newspaper death notice.


John

7
London and Middlesex / Re: George Henry SANDERSON, death 1855, Islington
« on: Saturday 17 January 15 14:17 GMT (UK)  »
Good morning Chempat

Yes I did find Caroline Eliza in 1861 with her grandmother. This points (not conclusively though) to one or both of Caroline Eliza's parents being dead by then.

Regarding George Henry's birthplace being stated as Russia (in the 1851 census) this is one of the biggest mysteries in the family. His two older brothers (or half brothers) were born in the USA (one in New York, and one not specified as to where) and his younger brother was born in England. There are two possible explanations, one that the family spent some time in Russia (possibly in connection with the tobacco business which George's father and later he and his brothers were in). The second is that Russia refers to the place in New York State, USA.

As for the Caroline in the 1861 census, married but no husband, I don't think there's enough evidence in the census alone to prove it's the same person.

One person believes that George Henry migrated to Australia, but I've seen no evidence yet.

So far I've been very lucky with many of my London ancestors that I've found burial records, but not so for George Henry Sanderson.

It looks as if I'm going to have to take a chance and order the death certificate! If it's the right person there could be some worthwhile clues about the elusive Sandersons.

Regards
John


8
Tyrone / Place name Broha
« on: Friday 16 January 15 23:48 GMT (UK)  »
In an obituary of a New Zealander, Alexander Livingstone (died 1898) it says he was a native of "Broha, County Tyrone, Ireland". The obituary was apparently written by someone who knew him personally over a long period of time.

Strangely, on his death certificate, it says he was born in "Omeagh", surely an attempt at Omagh. I'm guessing that this place name was chosen simply because it was the best known place in Tyrone.

I've searched through all the parishes and townlands of Tyrone, and not found Broha, but there is a village called Brockagh, also spelled Brocagh, near Dungannon.

How would Brockagh be pronounced, and what civil parish would it be in?

John in New Zealand



9
New Zealand Completed Requests / Re: What information is on a New Zealand marriage certificate?
« on: Friday 16 January 15 23:39 GMT (UK)  »
Regarding pre 1880 marriages in NZ, it's already been pointed out that the parents of the parties aren't included on certificates, but in my research I've sometimes had success finding newspaper marriage notices. The information on these is extremely variable but sometimes I've struck gold, such as the groom was the "third son of ----   ---- of County Antrim, Ireland", which is information I wouldn't have even found on a post 1880 marriage certificate. Almost always parental information in newspaper marriage notices will be limited to fathers of each party, and often only the bride's father. I would always advise tracking down newspaper notices for any pre 1880 NZ marriage. Papers Past, of course, is the way to find these.

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