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The Common Room / Re: Cross (x) on an Anglican Baptismal Record
« on: Wednesday 13 August 25 10:56 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the replies everyone! I hadn't considered transcription or other related marks, they make a lot of sense!
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2
The Common Room / Cross (x) on an Anglican Baptismal Record
« on: Sunday 10 August 25 18:56 BST (UK) »
Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on what the 'x' next to this Church of England baptismal entry from the village of Rock, Worcestershire on 12th Feb 1775 might mean.
My first thought was obviously illegitimacy, but thought that the way the parents' names were written ('Edward & Mary Munk') made it seem more likely they were a married couple. Looking through other records written by the same hand, I then found that they use the term 'base' to refer to illegitimate children anyway.
I have found other entries so marked, but they seem quite rare. Prior to this Munk family entry, the first entry I can find with a similar ink cross is the baptism of Robert, son of George and Mary Allen, 7th February 1768.
If anyone has any ideas as to what this might mean, I would love to hear them!
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on what the 'x' next to this Church of England baptismal entry from the village of Rock, Worcestershire on 12th Feb 1775 might mean.
My first thought was obviously illegitimacy, but thought that the way the parents' names were written ('Edward & Mary Munk') made it seem more likely they were a married couple. Looking through other records written by the same hand, I then found that they use the term 'base' to refer to illegitimate children anyway.
I have found other entries so marked, but they seem quite rare. Prior to this Munk family entry, the first entry I can find with a similar ink cross is the baptism of Robert, son of George and Mary Allen, 7th February 1768.
If anyone has any ideas as to what this might mean, I would love to hear them!
3
Derry (Londonderry) / Ambrose O'Neill of Dreenan (1700s)
« on: Saturday 12 April 25 13:47 BST (UK) »
Hi all,
I'm currently trying to see if there exists any more information about an Ambrose O'Neill of Dreenan townland, (between Portglenone and Maghera), who was alive in the mid-18th century. I'm posting here in case anyone knows any other research avenues I might have missed.
The only documented mention I have found of him so far is in a Memorial of a Lease dated 1747 made between Stafford Downing of Dreenan and Ambrose O'Neill, also of Dreenan, in which the former leases 'the forth part' of his farm to the latter. The lease is entrusted by Daniel O'Neill of Dreenan and Bernard Mulholland of Eden.
I don't know anything else about him, other than the name Ambrose was in common use by another branch of O'Neills on the other side of the river in Ahoghill. There is also only one O'Neill listed in the Dreenan Hearth Money Rolls of 1666, a Neal O'Neill, who may be an ancestor or other relation to Ambrose.
If anyone has any ideas of where I could look next, I'd be very grateful to hear them!
I'm currently trying to see if there exists any more information about an Ambrose O'Neill of Dreenan townland, (between Portglenone and Maghera), who was alive in the mid-18th century. I'm posting here in case anyone knows any other research avenues I might have missed.
The only documented mention I have found of him so far is in a Memorial of a Lease dated 1747 made between Stafford Downing of Dreenan and Ambrose O'Neill, also of Dreenan, in which the former leases 'the forth part' of his farm to the latter. The lease is entrusted by Daniel O'Neill of Dreenan and Bernard Mulholland of Eden.
I don't know anything else about him, other than the name Ambrose was in common use by another branch of O'Neills on the other side of the river in Ahoghill. There is also only one O'Neill listed in the Dreenan Hearth Money Rolls of 1666, a Neal O'Neill, who may be an ancestor or other relation to Ambrose.
If anyone has any ideas of where I could look next, I'd be very grateful to hear them!
4
Shropshire / Re: Obed Beddoes - Do I have the relationships right?
« on: Wednesday 27 March 24 17:13 GMT (UK) »
I did notice the second Beddoes marriage, of Mary Beddoes of Culmington and Edward Haynes of the parish of Diddlebury. Checking the original record, the witnesses were actually Thomas Haynes and Ann Beddoes. Given the date of the marriage, this would be a different Anne Beddoes than the one in my direct line ancestry, as she would have been Anne Howells by this point.
As it happens I was just looking at this old thread here which links to Edward and Mary's marriage. Edward and Mary apparently had two children, Elizabeth (who later married Thomas Whiteman) and a Sarah. Mary Haynes Beddoes later remarried to a Francis Tipton by license in Culmington, 8th May 1806, witnesses Sarah Beddoes and Benjamin Morris.
It would seem likely that the two Beddoes marriages on the same day in 1796 show a pretty close familial relationship. The information about the Beddoes/Haynes might at least help me sketch out what some of those relationships are!
As it happens I was just looking at this old thread here which links to Edward and Mary's marriage. Edward and Mary apparently had two children, Elizabeth (who later married Thomas Whiteman) and a Sarah. Mary Haynes Beddoes later remarried to a Francis Tipton by license in Culmington, 8th May 1806, witnesses Sarah Beddoes and Benjamin Morris.
It would seem likely that the two Beddoes marriages on the same day in 1796 show a pretty close familial relationship. The information about the Beddoes/Haynes might at least help me sketch out what some of those relationships are!
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Shropshire / Re: Obed Beddoes - Do I have the relationships right?
« on: Wednesday 27 March 24 15:16 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the reply, Ashtone, and thanks for correcting the date of the marriage; that was a typo on my part in the initial post!
There is also a second Obed Beddoes marriage in Culmington on the 26th of April in 1796, Eleanor Phillips the bride. What I've yet to figure out is whether this is the same Obed with a later second marriage, or whether it's a different man entirely. If it is someone different, then it would imply that there are some missing Beddoes baptisms, at least in Shropshire (perhaps born elsewhere? In different Quaker record sets?).
As far as I can see, Obed and Eleanor's children are as follows (names given as they appear in records):
Benjamin and William were both baptised in Wednesbury on the same day, in 1812 - perhaps born elsewhere?
Now some of these names overlap with the names of the children I have written down as the children of the Obed who married Mary Griffiths, making me think that they may indeed be two separate men. If so, then it raises the possibility that the Obed who witnessed Anne Beddoes' marriage was a brother or other male relation, rather than her father.
As mentioned, there seems to be no record of the baptism of this other Obed Beddoes, but there is an 1841 census record that might be relevant. There is an Obe and Eleanor Beddows living in Aston Warwickshire with two children Eleanor (20) and John (15). Obe is listed as being of Independent means. The younger Eleanor (with the leeway in 1841 census ages) is in the right ballpark to be the youngest child in the list above, but John is way too young to be the same John born 1799.
The Obe in the 1841 record obviously can't be the same Obed who died in 1817. Obe's age is listed as 80 giving a rough birth year of 1761. As yet, my searches have found no baptismal records for Obed/Obe/Obediah Beddoes in that time period.
There is also a second Obed Beddoes marriage in Culmington on the 26th of April in 1796, Eleanor Phillips the bride. What I've yet to figure out is whether this is the same Obed with a later second marriage, or whether it's a different man entirely. If it is someone different, then it would imply that there are some missing Beddoes baptisms, at least in Shropshire (perhaps born elsewhere? In different Quaker record sets?).
As far as I can see, Obed and Eleanor's children are as follows (names given as they appear in records):
- Ann Beddoes - bap. 1797, Wellington, Salop
- John Beddows - bap. 1799, Wellington, Salop
- Mary Beddow - bap. 1802, Wednesbury, Staffs
- Thomas Beddows - bap. 1803, Wednesbury, Staffs
- Obed Beddos - bap. 1807, Wolverhampton, Staffs
- Benjamin Bedduss - b.1808
- William Bedduss - b.1811
- Eleanor Beddow - bap. 1813, Wednesbury, Staffs (father listed as a carpenter)
Benjamin and William were both baptised in Wednesbury on the same day, in 1812 - perhaps born elsewhere?
Now some of these names overlap with the names of the children I have written down as the children of the Obed who married Mary Griffiths, making me think that they may indeed be two separate men. If so, then it raises the possibility that the Obed who witnessed Anne Beddoes' marriage was a brother or other male relation, rather than her father.
As mentioned, there seems to be no record of the baptism of this other Obed Beddoes, but there is an 1841 census record that might be relevant. There is an Obe and Eleanor Beddows living in Aston Warwickshire with two children Eleanor (20) and John (15). Obe is listed as being of Independent means. The younger Eleanor (with the leeway in 1841 census ages) is in the right ballpark to be the youngest child in the list above, but John is way too young to be the same John born 1799.
The Obe in the 1841 record obviously can't be the same Obed who died in 1817. Obe's age is listed as 80 giving a rough birth year of 1761. As yet, my searches have found no baptismal records for Obed/Obe/Obediah Beddoes in that time period.
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Shropshire / Obed Beddoes - Do I have the relationships right?
« on: Monday 25 March 24 16:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi all, I'm hoping to get some fresh eyes on this part of my tree to 'check my working', so to speak, and see whether I have the relationships right.
To begin, I'm fairly sure I have this particular line of my tree correct back to my 4x great grandparents Elisha Howells and Anne Beddoes, married on the 23rd of May 1791 in Culmington Shropshire. The signed witnesses were 'Obad. Beddoes and Thos. Pearce'. At first I assumed 'Obad.' was short for 'Obadiah', but when I looked into the various local records I found that the given name was most likely actually 'Obed', a different biblical name.
Where I'm not sure if I'm right is my assertion that this Obed was Anne's father. When I first added Anne to my tree, Ancestry suggested a number of trees which had her parents listed as a John Beddoes and Elizabeth Brookes, with their daughter Anne being baptised on the 10th Nov 1776 in Diddlebury.
I was initially somewhat doubtful about this parentage, as it would make Anne 15 at the time of her marriage to Elisha. I instead found a baptism of an Anne Beddoes in Edgton on 21st June 1774, parents Obed Beddose [sic] and his wife Mary, which would make Anne 19 at the time of the later marriage.
Now Diddlebury is closer to Culmington than Edgton, but I think that Obed may have moved to the latter location when he married. There is a 31st January 1772 marriage between Obed Beddoes of Seifton and Mary Griffiths of Edgton. Seifton is right next to Culmington.
While there are a number of later Obed Beddoes born in the area over the following decades (likely all in the same wider family) as far as I can see, there is only one candidate for the birth record of this eldest and seemingly first Obed, namely a Quaker birth record in 1741, in Seifton, parents Richard and Mary Beddoes. To my mind the Quaker faith likely explains the choice of name. Obed was baptised into the Anglican church on 2nd of Nov 1817, just a few days before his death. The parish record mentions his being resident in Seifton Batch and his previous Quaker religion.
So that's where I currently stand. I've pencilled in Obed as Anne's father because there are only a certain number of local baptismal records for Anne Beddoes between the 1740s, when Obed was born, and the cut-off point of around the 1770s where the prospective Annes become too young for the later marriage.
I'm interested to know what other Rootschatters think. Do I have a strong enough case to pin Obed as a direct ancestor and the father of Anne?
To begin, I'm fairly sure I have this particular line of my tree correct back to my 4x great grandparents Elisha Howells and Anne Beddoes, married on the 23rd of May 1791 in Culmington Shropshire. The signed witnesses were 'Obad. Beddoes and Thos. Pearce'. At first I assumed 'Obad.' was short for 'Obadiah', but when I looked into the various local records I found that the given name was most likely actually 'Obed', a different biblical name.
Where I'm not sure if I'm right is my assertion that this Obed was Anne's father. When I first added Anne to my tree, Ancestry suggested a number of trees which had her parents listed as a John Beddoes and Elizabeth Brookes, with their daughter Anne being baptised on the 10th Nov 1776 in Diddlebury.
I was initially somewhat doubtful about this parentage, as it would make Anne 15 at the time of her marriage to Elisha. I instead found a baptism of an Anne Beddoes in Edgton on 21st June 1774, parents Obed Beddose [sic] and his wife Mary, which would make Anne 19 at the time of the later marriage.
Now Diddlebury is closer to Culmington than Edgton, but I think that Obed may have moved to the latter location when he married. There is a 31st January 1772 marriage between Obed Beddoes of Seifton and Mary Griffiths of Edgton. Seifton is right next to Culmington.
While there are a number of later Obed Beddoes born in the area over the following decades (likely all in the same wider family) as far as I can see, there is only one candidate for the birth record of this eldest and seemingly first Obed, namely a Quaker birth record in 1741, in Seifton, parents Richard and Mary Beddoes. To my mind the Quaker faith likely explains the choice of name. Obed was baptised into the Anglican church on 2nd of Nov 1817, just a few days before his death. The parish record mentions his being resident in Seifton Batch and his previous Quaker religion.
So that's where I currently stand. I've pencilled in Obed as Anne's father because there are only a certain number of local baptismal records for Anne Beddoes between the 1740s, when Obed was born, and the cut-off point of around the 1770s where the prospective Annes become too young for the later marriage.
I'm interested to know what other Rootschatters think. Do I have a strong enough case to pin Obed as a direct ancestor and the father of Anne?
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Derry (Londonderry) / Re: The 'Stafford' O'Neills of Rocktown / Ballymacpeake
« on: Tuesday 19 March 24 00:10 GMT (UK) »
Not a problem Julie. It's saved in my messages so I'll resend it to you. 
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Derry (Londonderry) / Re: The 'Stafford' O'Neills of Rocktown / Ballymacpeake
« on: Sunday 17 March 24 00:06 GMT (UK) »
So in the Greenlough parish records I can find the following Mary O'Neill's baptised in the 1850s. I've highlighted the one I believe you've already found from 1852:
After that there is a gap until the next Mary, born in 1862, probably slightly too young to be your ancestor.
Daniel O'Neill and his wife Nancy O'Neill have come up a few times in the research of myself and the previously mentioned Patrick O'Neill, a co-researcher who is a descendant of the Stafford O'Neills of Ballymacpeake in Greenlough and has done a huge amount of research in the area.
Patrick is a DNA match with some confirmed descendants of Daniel and Nancy through their son John O'Neill, who married a Rose Heverin. The couple then both moved out to New Zealand. I'm therefore fairly certain that either Daniel O'Neill or his wife Nancy are somehow related to the 'Stafford' O'Neills. Of course, O'Neills marrying O'Neills make the precise connection difficult to find, but I believe it's in there.
In terms of your own link, it may be of note that the area that Daniel and Nancy lived in, right by the Dreenan Bridge (number 12 on the map below, taken from the Griffiths valuations) had a huge number of Henry families living there, many the immediate neighbours of the O'Neills. In fact, Henry is one of the most common surnames in the area. There are also a number of confirmed links between other O'Neill families in the area and Henry families. I believe Patrick already has a number of them in his own tree.
What I would suggest is that firstly you contact Patrick (I can pass on his contact to you); he is far more knowlegeable in the Greenlough area than myself. You've mentioned wanting to use DNA, and I find myself wondering whether you could be a match with Patrick, or at the very least share some matches.
Secondly, I would take a look through the other Mary Greenlough births and see if you can rule any of the other births out and narrow it down to Daniel and Nancy's child.
Hope that helps!
- Mary O'Neill - 1851 - Parents: John O'Neill and Rose Slamin (sometimes written Slamen)
- Mary O'Neile - 1852 - Parents: Daniel O'Neill and Nancy O'Neile
- Mary O'Neill - 1855 - Parents: James O'Neill and Peggy McPake (spelling variant of McPeake)
After that there is a gap until the next Mary, born in 1862, probably slightly too young to be your ancestor.
Daniel O'Neill and his wife Nancy O'Neill have come up a few times in the research of myself and the previously mentioned Patrick O'Neill, a co-researcher who is a descendant of the Stafford O'Neills of Ballymacpeake in Greenlough and has done a huge amount of research in the area.
Patrick is a DNA match with some confirmed descendants of Daniel and Nancy through their son John O'Neill, who married a Rose Heverin. The couple then both moved out to New Zealand. I'm therefore fairly certain that either Daniel O'Neill or his wife Nancy are somehow related to the 'Stafford' O'Neills. Of course, O'Neills marrying O'Neills make the precise connection difficult to find, but I believe it's in there.
In terms of your own link, it may be of note that the area that Daniel and Nancy lived in, right by the Dreenan Bridge (number 12 on the map below, taken from the Griffiths valuations) had a huge number of Henry families living there, many the immediate neighbours of the O'Neills. In fact, Henry is one of the most common surnames in the area. There are also a number of confirmed links between other O'Neill families in the area and Henry families. I believe Patrick already has a number of them in his own tree.
What I would suggest is that firstly you contact Patrick (I can pass on his contact to you); he is far more knowlegeable in the Greenlough area than myself. You've mentioned wanting to use DNA, and I find myself wondering whether you could be a match with Patrick, or at the very least share some matches.
Secondly, I would take a look through the other Mary Greenlough births and see if you can rule any of the other births out and narrow it down to Daniel and Nancy's child.
Hope that helps!
9
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: The 'Stafford' O'Neills of Rocktown / Ballymacpeake
« on: Thursday 14 March 24 23:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Julie!
As I've done quite a bit of work on local O'Neills I'll see if I can help you out.
As a first question, have you found a specific marriage record for Mary and Patrick yet? I was wondering if they were married in England or back in Ireland.
As I've done quite a bit of work on local O'Neills I'll see if I can help you out.
As a first question, have you found a specific marriage record for Mary and Patrick yet? I was wondering if they were married in England or back in Ireland.