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Messages - Axonais

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London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Yesterday at 20:21 »
Thank you. This deed is already known. It was made in Heeze near Eindhoven in the Netherlands. Storm van 's Gravesande was "schepen" (= alderman) of the court in Heeze before which this deed was registered. He was not related to Caroline Victoire Ravanel. She is known by the Christian names Caroline Victoire (Ravanel), Caroline Frédérique (Ravanel) and Eugenie Caroline Theodore(a) Rinsby née Ravanel.

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London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Yesterday at 09:27 »
Dear PatLac,
Excuse me for coming back so retardingly. I was very busy these days. Yes I do appreciate your postings very much. I know Kees van Strien’s book already. His findings in Dutch archives are important.
I have to look at your other postings as yet. Miss Phipps was a daughter of Nathaniel Cholmley and Henrietta Catherine Croft. Nathaniel Cholmley married again to Anne Jesse Smelt, daughter of Leonard Smelt, mentioned in my query and mentioned by you. She is the Mrs Cholmley mentioned by Eugenie Rinsby in her will. Eugenie must have followed Mrs Cholmley to Richmond after Leonard Smelt’s death.
The Local Studies Library in Richmond (https://www.richmond.gov.uk/local_studies_collection) seems to have a film of Richmond burials in the beginning of the 19th century. I hope they can search them on my behalf.

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London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Monday 14 July 25 10:36 BST (UK)  »
The widow Rinsby née Ravanel came from a french speaking Ravanel family that had a very good relationship with the court in Zweibrücken and with other princely or ducal courts around in the 18th century. Some female membres served as governess or educators to the reigning families. Our Mrs Rinsby was a governess as well. She served as such in the Netherlands in 1784-1787. In 1788 she came to Trévoux, now département de l’Ain, near Lyon in France. In 1790, in Trévoux, she is mentioned in the will of two well known Dutch female writers as ‘dame Caroline Victoire Ravanel veuve de M. Charles Ferdinand Rinsby decedé capitaine de vaisseau au service de la republique d’Hollande’. Her Christian names differ in the various sources: Caroline Victoire, Caroline Frédérique and Eugenie Caroline Theodore (Theodora). The only place where the name of her deceased husband is given is in this will. However a ships-captain named Rinsby can nowhere be found in Dutch archives. As PatLac observed the surname of Rinsby is special and rather unique.

I thank jonwarrn for the copies of the advertisement in the Sussex Advertiser. Much appreciated! The names of Jacques Champ and Jean Clark can be found in the probate record of Mrs Rinsby’s will as well.

For good order’s sake I mention that Leonard Smelt, the father of Mrs. Cholmley and Mrs. Goulton, became Deputy Ranger of Richmond Park in about 1781. That may explain why Mrs. Rinsby died in Lowerhill near Richmond. He was an intimate to king George III and queen Charlotte. See; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Smelt_(British_Army_officer)

I do not now the English law on burials in the beginning of the 19th century, but I can imagine that for a burial a permission from the local authorities was obligatory. Was that perhaps the case for Richmond and were these permissions registered ?

I do agree that Mrs. Rinsby most probably was in the household of Leonard Smelt as a governess of lady-companion.

Many thanks to PatLac for the German book on the Bayerische Staatsrat. Very informative.

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London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Sunday 13 July 25 19:51 BST (UK)  »
Dear Patlac,
According to the Munich file her death was in Lower Hill near Richmond in 1806 or perhaps 1807.  Her will was probated only in 1810. I found the advertisement in the Sussex Advertiser of 6 March 1815, just as you did, but I don’t know its full text jet. Would be great if you could be of help to find it somewhere. Please note the date 6 March 1815. The advertisement must have been placed in direct relation with the correspondence in 1814 and 1815.

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London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Sunday 13 July 25 18:51 BST (UK)  »
Dear PatLac,
Thanks for replying to my query. The reference you found on internet is a file in the Munich State Archives concerning the succession of Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby née Ravanel. It contains correspondence between the Ministry of Foreign Affaires in Munich, the Bavaria ambassador in London and Mr. Joseph Bouchet d’Epreville about this succession during the years 1814 and 1815. The data in this file have been used for composing my query.

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London and Middlesex / The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Sunday 13 July 25 11:20 BST (UK)  »
According to correspondence in the State Archives in Munich, Bavaria, the widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in the house of Mrs Cholmley in Lowerhill near Richmond, London, in 1806. Her own family name was Ravanel. She came from a Swiss family living in Zweibrücken in the Palatinate of the Rhine and was born in 1751. She had a sister married to a privy counsellor to the king of Bavaria, named Joseph Bouchet d’Epreville, living in Mannheim in 1810 and 1815.

Mrs. Rinsby’s will and probate can be found in the National Archives, Kew - Prerogative Court of Canterbury, dated 12 March 1810. reference PROB 11/1509/222. The will was signed in Langton in the North Riding of Yorkshire 13 January 1801. From it we learn that she had a relationship with the families of Mrs Colmley and Goulton. These ladies can be identified as Ann Jesse Cholmley née Smelt, wife of Nathaniel Cholmley (1721-1791), and Dorothea Goulton née Smelt of St John Delpike in York, wife of Thomas Goulton of the par. of St Mary’s Beverley, Yorkshire Eastriding. They were daughters of Leonard Smelt and his wife Ann Fairbridge. Leonard Smelt died in Langton Hall, Little Langton 2 September 1800. Mrs Rinsby most probably was a lady-companion to Leonard Smelt in Langton. His biography is in the Dictionary of National Biography.

The exact place and date of Mrs Rinsby’s death have not yet been found. Could somebody supply that information (with source) ?

Any further information on Mrs Rinsby and her relations with the Cholmley and Goulton families will be very welcome.

Many thanks in advance.

7
South Africa / Death Notice of James Tindal, died Graaff-Reinet, South Africa, 4th May 1838
« on: Friday 22 August 14 08:57 BST (UK)  »
According to The Asiatic Journal and Monthly Register for British and Foreign India, China, and Australasia, vol. XXVII - New Series, September-December, 1838 (London: Wm.H. Allen and Co., 1838), p. 325, James Tindal, son of His Excellency the late lieutenant general Ralph Dundas (baron) Tindal, died at Graaff-Reinet, Cape Colony, South-Africa, on 4th May 1838, aged about 43.

I am in search of a copy of the death notice (in Afrikaans "Sterftekennis") drawn up after the death of James Tindal in Graaff-Reinet. Could anyone be of help to inform me on how to find out whether a death notice has been drawn up and if so, to instruct how to get copies?

James Tindal, who was a Dutchman and a son of the Dutch general Baron Ralph Dundas Tindal (1773-1834), came to South Africa from Java after May 1829.

Is there any possibility to find out when and on board of what ship James came to the Cape?

Any help to find answers on these questions would be great. Many thanks in advance.

Axonais

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: James Tindal, died Graaff-Reinet, Cape Colony (South-Africa) 4 May 1838
« on: Thursday 21 August 14 20:37 BST (UK)  »
Hi again Dauro,

Could you be so kind as to post the exact source of the list of officers you mentioned? Is it accessible on the internet?

Daniel, Leonard Jean and Willem Fredrik Tindal you mentioned were James's brothers and Pelph [recte Ralph] Dundas Tindal his father.

Axonais.

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: James Tindal, died Graaff-Reinet, Cape Colony (South-Africa) 4 May 1838
« on: Thursday 21 August 14 07:57 BST (UK)  »
Hi Dauro,

Thank you for your reply. You seem to refer to James Tindal's biographical data that can be found in Nederland's Adelsboek [Dutch Peerage] 95 (2010) 237 and in the Javasche Courant. I knew these already for they can easily be found on the internet. As far as I can see from these sources his wife did not leave Java with him.

Do you happen to know more biographical data on James (with sources)? Would be very helpful !

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