Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Axonais

Pages: [1] 2
1
London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Sunday 14 September 25 15:50 BST (UK)  »
Good to hear from you again and that you are still interested in the Ravanel complex. No, I have no information on François Antoine Ravanel, the godfather of Jean Louis François Antoine Reynier.

You certainly will know already that Sara Louise Chappius [née Ravanel] was the grandmother of the baptized child and that Antoinette Hofman [née Ravanel] was his great-aunt. I don’t know yet who was Jean Pierre Regnier. Was he his grandfather? It may be, but I am not sure, that Francois Antoine Ravanel was the father of Sara Louise Chappius [née Ravanel] and Antoinette Hofman [née Ravanel]. I jotted down without source that this father died on 9 March 1776.

He was married to a Marie Ravanel, née ??, who was the godmother of Marianne, daughter of François Guillaume Ravanel and Jeanneton (=Johanna Franziska) Roche, baptized in Zweibrücken 6 Jan. 1746.

Probably you will also know already that Jean Louis Ebénezer Reynier (1771-1814) était un général français sous Napoléon: https://hls-dhs-dss.ch/fr/articles/024197/2010-08-27/

Do you know where this Ravanel family came from? I couldn’t find the place of origin.

2
London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Sunday 27 July 25 09:47 BST (UK)  »
I have not found this page in the said book on internet. Unfortunately not all pages are available. The information is quite interesting. On 20 July 25 19:14 BST (UK) PatLac posted this site: https://www.openarchieven.nl/rhe:BED0D8E2-F3AD-4C46-A33A-6E12BC482A8F/en. It is about this deed: https://www.rhc-eindhoven.nl/collectie?mizig=46&miadt=48&miaet=54&micode=NTI-10210-1683&minr=3581134&miview=ldt. It is a procuration dated 11 Oct. 1786 in which Carolina Victoire Ravanel empowers Mr Bouchet de Preville, privy councillor to His Serene Highness the Prince of Zweibrücken, living in Zweibrücken, to represent her as joint heiress of her paternal aunt Mrs Marianne Fisees née Ravanel, who died recently in Darmstadt. As far as I can see the procuration mentioned on p. 341 and the one of 11 Oct. 1786 are the same. See also my reply 20 July 25 20:21 BST (UK).

I found the following in the said book (p. 315).  As I said I don’t know the full text yet, but in note 1 we read in German “the sender of the letter is a niece of the governess Ravanel; … Her husband was dead already in 1774; ...” It may well be that this niece is our Caroline Victoire Ravanel …

3
London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Saturday 26 July 25 18:43 BST (UK)  »
Yes I know the relevent pages of this book already. The only important information we learn from them is that Caroline Ravanel was in the Netherlands in 1784 already and that she was known to a nobleman living in the East of the country. He was in search of a governess for his children. So it is pretty sure that she was a governess as well.
The book may be interesting for the Swiss governess phenomenon in a more general way, but not for Ravanel as such.

4
London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Thursday 24 July 25 09:11 BST (UK)  »
The proxy in Heeze dated 11 Oct. 1786 was passed in the office of the manor of Heeze, where were present Storm van ’s Gravesande and H. Bock, both “schepen” (alderman). H. Janssen was the clerk.

The marriage registration of the Fizer-Ravanel couple gives two witnesses: Marie Antoinete Hofmann widow (“Witib”) née Ravanel and the captain Francois De Kaipf.

The letter (“Brief”) nr. 864 mentioned in the book by Ulrike Leutschner seems to have been written on 18 Nov. 1786 (p. 64). I do agree that the “weitere Nichte” [an other niece] who lived at that time in Holland must have been Caroline Victoire Ravanel.

As no sea-captain of the name Rinsby can be found in Dutch archives or printed literature and this name seems to be very rare indeed and her widowship suddenly falls out of the cloud  in 1790 it may very well be that Caroline invented her state of being a widower. I doubt Caroline’s widowship for a long time myself.

Your find of the burial of Mrs. Rinsly in the church in Chichester is really important and a great success. Her name could indeed be read as Rinsby.  According to her approved will it was James Champ of the city of Chichester notary public who translated it from the original French to English and the Reverend George Marwood was constituted as executor.

This George Marwood probably was the Rev. George Marwood who was a canon of Chichester Cathedral. See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Metcalfe-760. His mother was Anne Smelt. I haven’t yet figured out her relationship with Leonard Smelt.

5
London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Sunday 20 July 25 20:21 BST (UK)  »
Thank you. This deed is already known. It was made in Heeze near Eindhoven in the Netherlands. Storm van 's Gravesande was "schepen" (= alderman) of the court in Heeze before which this deed was registered. He was not related to Caroline Victoire Ravanel. She is known by the Christian names Caroline Victoire (Ravanel), Caroline Frédérique (Ravanel) and Eugenie Caroline Theodore(a) Rinsby née Ravanel.

6
London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Sunday 20 July 25 09:27 BST (UK)  »
Dear PatLac,
Excuse me for coming back so retardingly. I was very busy these days. Yes I do appreciate your postings very much. I know Kees van Strien’s book already. His findings in Dutch archives are important.
I have to look at your other postings as yet. Miss Phipps was a daughter of Nathaniel Cholmley and Henrietta Catherine Croft. Nathaniel Cholmley married again to Anne Jesse Smelt, daughter of Leonard Smelt, mentioned in my query and mentioned by you. She is the Mrs Cholmley mentioned by Eugenie Rinsby in her will. Eugenie must have followed Mrs Cholmley to Richmond after Leonard Smelt’s death.
The Local Studies Library in Richmond (https://www.richmond.gov.uk/local_studies_collection) seems to have a film of Richmond burials in the beginning of the 19th century. I hope they can search them on my behalf.

7
London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Monday 14 July 25 10:36 BST (UK)  »
The widow Rinsby née Ravanel came from a french speaking Ravanel family that had a very good relationship with the court in Zweibrücken and with other princely or ducal courts around in the 18th century. Some female membres served as governess or educators to the reigning families. Our Mrs Rinsby was a governess as well. She served as such in the Netherlands in 1784-1787. In 1788 she came to Trévoux, now département de l’Ain, near Lyon in France. In 1790, in Trévoux, she is mentioned in the will of two well known Dutch female writers as ‘dame Caroline Victoire Ravanel veuve de M. Charles Ferdinand Rinsby decedé capitaine de vaisseau au service de la republique d’Hollande’. Her Christian names differ in the various sources: Caroline Victoire, Caroline Frédérique and Eugenie Caroline Theodore (Theodora). The only place where the name of her deceased husband is given is in this will. However a ships-captain named Rinsby can nowhere be found in Dutch archives. As PatLac observed the surname of Rinsby is special and rather unique.

I thank jonwarrn for the copies of the advertisement in the Sussex Advertiser. Much appreciated! The names of Jacques Champ and Jean Clark can be found in the probate record of Mrs Rinsby’s will as well.

For good order’s sake I mention that Leonard Smelt, the father of Mrs. Cholmley and Mrs. Goulton, became Deputy Ranger of Richmond Park in about 1781. That may explain why Mrs. Rinsby died in Lowerhill near Richmond. He was an intimate to king George III and queen Charlotte. See; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Smelt_(British_Army_officer)

I do not now the English law on burials in the beginning of the 19th century, but I can imagine that for a burial a permission from the local authorities was obligatory. Was that perhaps the case for Richmond and were these permissions registered ?

I do agree that Mrs. Rinsby most probably was in the household of Leonard Smelt as a governess of lady-companion.

Many thanks to PatLac for the German book on the Bayerische Staatsrat. Very informative.

8
London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Sunday 13 July 25 19:51 BST (UK)  »
Dear Patlac,
According to the Munich file her death was in Lower Hill near Richmond in 1806 or perhaps 1807.  Her will was probated only in 1810. I found the advertisement in the Sussex Advertiser of 6 March 1815, just as you did, but I don’t know its full text jet. Would be great if you could be of help to find it somewhere. Please note the date 6 March 1815. The advertisement must have been placed in direct relation with the correspondence in 1814 and 1815.

9
London and Middlesex / Re: The widow Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby died in Lowerhill nr Richmond, London
« on: Sunday 13 July 25 18:51 BST (UK)  »
Dear PatLac,
Thanks for replying to my query. The reference you found on internet is a file in the Munich State Archives concerning the succession of Eugenie Caroline Theodore Rinsby née Ravanel. It contains correspondence between the Ministry of Foreign Affaires in Munich, the Bavaria ambassador in London and Mr. Joseph Bouchet d’Epreville about this succession during the years 1814 and 1815. The data in this file have been used for composing my query.

Pages: [1] 2