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Messages - BostonLil

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This post is for the attention of MatthewG

You said earlier that you descend from John Bowman and Mary Singleton.  I am interested in this family as I believe I have an illegitimate descent from one of their children.

I had my husband (not direct male line) and his half-cousin (who IS in the direct male line) do DNA tests, and I have several matches for the cousin who descend from the 2 eldest surving sons.  My husband has a mass of Singletons, but they appear to be much further back as IBDs, but he does have a match from William Singleton and Hannah Hoop.  There are also a couple of female cousins on the same generation as my husband who also match Bowman descendants.

The fact that my husband's great-great-grandmother (who originated in London from a Bristol family) was in service with one of the family members in Yorkshire is, of course, probably purely coincidental!  ;)

I would be interested in a discussion with you.

Thanks.

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Europe / Re: John Ingamells
« on: Friday 15 December 17 05:29 GMT (UK)  »
I come down through John who married Mary Sleight, and their son Richard (married to Rebecca Epton) and their son William (married to Hannah Johnson) and their daughter Mary who married Seth Ellingworth and who were my great grandparents.

Re the Lincolnshire Marriage Bonds, they are available on Findmypast.  They don't tell you everything as only details about the couple are transcribed, which is actually enough, but there may be more information about who the guarantor was, and that could have been another member of the family.  When I can get down to Lincoln again, I'll check out the originals.

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Europe / Re: John Ingamells
« on: Thursday 14 December 17 13:39 GMT (UK)  »
Yes, Christopher went down through the family - not my branch, as that had Johns and Williams.

To get back from William and Ann Green, you need to look at the Lincolnshire Marriage Bonds and you should find a couple of Christophers in there.  The links from generation to generation are not conclusively proven, but once you realise that you are dealing with a very restricted surname group, the chances of there being more than one possible becomes almost minimal.

Basically, all roads seem to lead back to Great Carlton.

4
Europe / Re: John Ingamells
« on: Thursday 14 December 17 07:40 GMT (UK)  »
I'm a direct line descendant of John Ingamells and I spent several years trying to definitively tie him in with his parents.  Although Ingamells is a pretty uncommon name around the country, unfortunately there are hundreds in Lincolnshire.  However, that being said, there still weren't that many in one area when John was born.  Plus the Ingamells tended to have more females than males, and not many of these males survived to have children, so there are fewer possibles than you might think.

There were 3 particular men surnamed Ingamells who married (at Sibsey) to 3 sisters surnamed Burr originally from Algarkirk; so I'm firmly of the opinion that they are closely related.  John, William, and Christopher Ingamells who married Elizabeth, Mary, and Ann Burr respectively, fit in with being the sons of William Ingamells and Ann nee Green.

John's baptism in 1727 has his parents as William and Elizabeth Engoldmell, however I think this is an error.  Mumby registers appear to be written out at the same time for the whole year; the layout and handwriting is too consistent.  An entry for the same day has a mother Elizabeth, and I think it entirely possible that someone took that mother's name mistakenly from the line below when copying from the rough register.  There is no other couple of William and Elizabeth Ingamells (whichever spelling) at the time.

William senior is shown as being of "the Chapple" from his burial, and this is Mumby Chapel aka Chapel St Leonards. William and Ann's children were baptised at Hogsthorpe, Mumby, and Addlethorpe; all of which are within a few miles of each other.  Addlethorpe is only about a mile from the village of Ingoldmells, which is the source of the surname.  Goodness only knows where someone got Germany from, but that's been floating round on Familysearch for donkey's years - so I'd advise you to ignore it.

I can take the Ingamells line back several more generations, and they end up in c1500 in the Great Carlton area which is about 16 miles or so north of Mumby.  Remember that the place names on the east coast are often derived from Scandinavian names due to the invasion tendencies of the Vikings etc, so there will be similarities with names in other northern European countries.

5
The Common Room / Re: Should I give up?
« on: Monday 25 January 16 19:00 GMT (UK)  »
I know nothing about the Chartists, but have done a quick search on the old Interweb.

I wonder if your correspondent is getting your Ellis family mixed up with others.  There is a page here where William Ellis bc 1810 and Edward Ellis bc 1822 are mentioned in a list of those transported.

http://www.chartists.net/crime-and-punishment/chartists-transported-to-australia/

From newspapers October 1842, the William Ellis referred to above was a Potter from Burslem who was arrested in Glasgow, where he was working under an assumed name.

There are a couple of pages in the Wolverhampton Chronicle and Staffordshire Advertiser 19 October 1842, where numerous people are charged in connection with riots / house demolition / thefts etc - including Edward Ellis.

It might be worthwhile, if this person contacts you again, for you to ask them what evidence they have that your Ellis family were Chartists.  There certainly were some Chartists called Ellis - but it isn't an uncommon name and it's a huge leap to connect to your family who are quite well documented, and with no suggestion of any Chartist connection.

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The Common Room / Re: Should I give up?
« on: Monday 25 January 16 10:56 GMT (UK)  »
I've done a clean search using just John Evan Ellis b 1851 Dudley RD as my starting point.

Dudley 1861 John Evan Ellis, A9, b Dudley, with mother Catherine Ellis, A34, Unm, Tailoress, b Dudley.  Also in the household Charles Mills, Boarder, A60, Unm, Tailor, b IOW, and Catherine's 2 daughters, Eva, A4, and Kate, A1.

From FreeBMD, John Evan Ellis b 3Q 1851 Dudley RD, died 3Q 1894 Dudley RD A42. 

Going backwards in the censuses:

Dudley 1851 Catherine Ellis, A26, Unm, Tailoress, b Dudley, shown as daughter with Charles Mills, A49, Mar, Tailor, b (Oclerwhite?) and Sarah Mills, A55, Mar, Tailoress, b Yorkshire

Dudley 1841 Katherine Elliss, A15, b Worcs, with Charles Mills, A35, Taylor and Sarah Mills, A40, neither of whom was born Worcs.

Then moving forwards we have:

Dudley 1871 Charles Mills, A60, Widr, Tailor, b Isle of Wight and Catherine Ellis, Dau, A47, with children John E, A18, Eva, A13, Kate, A10, and Ada, A7.

From FreeReg, there is a baptism of Catherine Ellis on 14 Mar 1824, dau of William Ellis, Cordwainer, and Sarah.  3 days later, there is the baptism of Edward, with the same named parents where William is also a Cordwainer.  However, there is nothing to say that these are the same parents or if it is just a coincidence of names and occupation.

William Ellis burials from FreeReg are a bit confusing, with one dying in 1825 aged 31, and one in 1828 aged 33.  Either or neither of these might be Catherine's father.  There is no record online that I can find where a Charles Mills marries a Sarah Ellis.

In Dudley 1881, Catherine is A57, and is recorded as Mar crossed out with Widow overwritten.  She still has Eva, Kate, and Ada with her, all Unmarried.
Dudley 1891 Catherine is A60, and a Widow, with Eva, A24, Unm, and Ada, A23, also Unm, both of whom are Tailoresses, and John P A11mths, grandson.
Dudley 1901 she is A76, Wid, Tailoress, with her unmarried daughter Eva, and a grandson Percy A11

[I can see on ACOM 9 Public Trees that have Catherine as the daughter of William Ellis and Sarah Harcourt (not born Yorkshire).  There are 4 different trees with one on 4 times, two twice, and one once.  All have more or less the same information re William and Sarah, with William dying in 1855 and Sarah in 1842.  (One has John and Eva as Catherine's children, and then Kate and Ada twice each.)  It looks as though one person has entered the details and the others have just copied them over without checking the information.  If this is the sort of information that your "trained" person is quoting, in my opinion you can discount it.]

[I just googled John Evan Ellis and found an entry from you on a forum from 2008 where you include the following info re John's marriages.

1 John Mills(Ellis) +Sarah Matthews St James Lower Gornal 1885
Father John Mills tailor dec.
2 John Ellis +Bridget Durkin St Aug.Dudley 1892
Father Charles Ellis tailor dec.

From that, I found John with his family, and the second wife remarried:

Dudley 1891 John Mills and Sarah, with children including Ada bc1886
Dudley 1901 Bridget Cain with step-children Ada bc 1886 and James bc 1894

You have to think what sort of questions were asked and what answers might have been given.
It appears that John went by the surname Mills for a part of his life.  The vicar asks his name, and then the name of his father.  If he said "the same as mine" it becomes - John Mills, or it may have been just John or Charles. The occupation speaks for itself as it is consistent.  The vicar would then enter appropriately.  It may not have been an outright lie.]

The only thing I would say is that you should get all of the certificates you can if you haven't already done so.  It is all too easy to get onto the wrong track.  However, I've gone from your assertion that the John Evan born in 1851 is the correct one, and everything ties in with what you (and the others on this thread who have looked) have already found.

There is a large gap of 5 years between John Evan and Eva being born.  Some time between 1851 and 1861 it appears that Catherine's mother died, so there is a possibility that she had John to one man, and then took over her mother's "duties".  It was evidently quite well known for a daughter or step-daughter to have such a thing happen.

Your question was should you give up - I think you know the answer to that, don't you?

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Census and Resource Discussion / Re: Lost Cousins - Customer service at it's worst?
« on: Friday 22 January 16 08:38 GMT (UK)  »
I have been rather unimpressed with Master Calver for quite a while.  I am reminded of Dad's Army and the likening of Captain Mainwaring to Napolean.  He must get through a lot of Teddies.

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Census and Resource Discussion / Re: What! The 1939 Register For Free!
« on: Wednesday 20 January 16 17:05 GMT (UK)  »
It's to be hoped they are set up for the flood of corrections.  I know of several already without having purchased any credits, so goodness only knows what I might find when I start looking in anger.  Also, I expect things might collapse on 16 February if past experience is anything to go by.  Maybe this free weekend will be a good test for them re capacity and site stability.

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The Common Room / Re: FAMILY TREE MAKER to be discontinued!
« on: Wednesday 09 December 15 08:51 GMT (UK)  »
This is probably a timely lesson to everyone to keep their Trees under their own control and invest in a FT program.  I use Ancestral Quest.  I've used it for years and updated it several times to newer versions, but found that, after 2012, it got a bit too jazzy for my taste.  A 3 year old program, does what I need and want, and I'm happy.   8)

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