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Messages - Jon_ni

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 89
1
Down / Re: Seeking wife’s name & parentage of Hugh Shaw (b. c.1798, Saintfield, Co. Down)
« on: Sunday 02 November 25 12:47 GMT (UK)  »
James 1866 looks right meaning the 1901 aged 72 is his widow; died 2 months after son David born hence no further births whereas I had thought it was Eliza.
Forgot about Familysearch for the early deaths (let's hope they finally appear on IrishGen next year!)

D/1866/105/1011/2/87 James Shaw 20th August 1866 aged 25, Killyleagh Sub-District of Downpatrick. Registered by his mother presumably, though likely no relationship will be stated.

That is definitely the right Elizabeth mother-in-law, Emc4888 should have been able to clarify last reply when mentioned the daughter Mary.
Alexander McMahon married Mary E Shaw in Saintfield R.C. Chapel 21 Nov 1888, both of Leggygowan & stating father = James Shaw, labourer, deceased.
https://irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10783/5932288.pdf

2
Down / Re: Seeking wife’s name & parentage of Hugh Shaw (b. c.1798, Saintfield, Co. Down)
« on: Sunday 02 November 25 12:02 GMT (UK)  »
Quote
There is one for a James Shaw, widower, in Ballymacarrett. Father Hugh Shaw, deceased, Laborer.
But I think it's a different James. The one in Saintfield died young?
This could perhaps be widow Eliza in 1901

Eliza nee Henvey I thought perhaps died Saintfield Sub-District of Lisburn 1867 after giving birth to children Mary and David. James remarried 1869?

That 1901 looks possible though, we will need to await feedback from Emc4888 as to the 1867 1866 Death Registration details on GRONI.

Eliza Shaw [sister of Martha] aged 71, single was in Leggygowan 1911, alone & Presbyterian.
https://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Leggygowan/Leggygowan/240706

Link for her 1918 death you referred to above https://irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1918/05198/4436076.pdf
I would assume 'Widow of a Farmer' is Fiction for politeness and that Samuel was indeed an illegitimate son (with aunt Martha, uncle James, uncle David etc, and was a daughter of Hugh & Ann, tentatively given James now seems to have died 1866 and the Valuation Revision name change is 10 years later).

3
Down / Re: Seeking wife’s name & parentage of Hugh Shaw (b. c.1798, Saintfield, Co. Down)
« on: Sunday 02 November 25 02:55 GMT (UK)  »
1876 Elizabeth & Martha Shaw take over the lease of 58 from the James in Leggygowan
VAL/12/B/18/19A (1866-1876)
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_Val12b/Large%20JPeg/IRELBEL1D_031/IRELBEL1D_VAL12B-18-19A/IRELBEL1D_VAL12B-18-19A_M_00060.jpg

A spinster Martha with sister Eliza (informant) died 8 Dec 1905 (reg 3 Jan 1906) aged 67 in Ballymacreelly Townland, Killinchy.
https://irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05574/4565323.pdf

4
Down / Re: Seeking wife’s name & parentage of Hugh Shaw (b. c.1798, Saintfield, Co. Down)
« on: Sunday 02 November 25 01:26 GMT (UK)  »
Quote
Still looking for Hugh Shaws wife’s name (he was born in 1798 for refernace)- might be worth then for me to buy the GRONI death certificate!

You don't need to buy a paper cert, just view the Full image online (need 50 pence credit worth leaving as enables searches of Shaw births with mothers maiden names starting at least 3 characters to allow for spelling variations as variants option doesn't work). Increase your browser magnification to approx 200%, you will see the suggestion from GRONI about them not wishing people to use snipping tools etc.
https://nidirect.gov.uk/services/go-groni-online

As above we thought Ann was Hugh's wife died Leggygowan 14 April 1877, aged 73 & married rather than a widow.

For reference Mary Shaw born 1st Jan 1865 https://irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1865/03589/2322978.pdf in Lisowen Townland, adjacent to the SE of Leggygowan. Indexed on GRONI with mother's maiden surname of Henry.

Griffiths Valuation has quite a few Shaws in Saintfield civil parish but many are repeats presumably either leasing several bits of land or immediate lessors sub-leasing to others.

James Shaw, occupier, in Leggygowan, map ref 58 & 59, 1 + 4 acres
James Henvey, occupier, in Leggygowan (Eliza's father) map ref 42a & 42b, 1 + 2 acres
Hugh Shaw, occupier of a house only (no land) in Creevyloughgare at map ref 25Ba sub-leasing off Daniel Magean at 25 A&B who registered his death 1882.
Andrew Shaw in Creevyloughgare 2,1,c house only.
an Eliza Shaw, occupier, in Lisowen map ref 37. 24 acres.

5
Down / Re: Seeking wife’s name & parentage of Hugh Shaw (b. c.1798, Saintfield, Co. Down)
« on: Saturday 01 November 25 23:06 GMT (UK)  »
Quote
"1.  James Shaw, born about 1841. Protestant, farmer’s servant. Married Eliza Hanvey (Catholic) on 27 April 1864 in the Downpatrick registration district."
Had a son David born 7 June 1866 at Leggygowan
David seems to be the only child of that marriage. GRONI shows an Eliza died 1867.
D/1867/150/1018/1/314 Eliza Shaw 30 March 1867 aged 21 Saintfield sub-district of Lisburn.

James (Widower, labourer) then possibly remarried 1869 to Agnes Hodgins (spinster) in St Patrick's Church of Ireland, Ballymacarrett, Belfast. Thing is says father was Hugh Shaw, labourer (DECEASED).
https://irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1869/11417/8193587.pdf
(his 1st marriage Downpatrick Reg Office 1864 had father also as labourer and witness David).

Think I'd invest £2.50 on the GRONI death image to be sure of things as I'm not seeing any children from the 2nd marriage.

6
Down / Re: Seeking wife’s name & parentage of Hugh Shaw (b. c.1798, Saintfield, Co. Down)
« on: Saturday 01 November 25 21:18 GMT (UK)  »
Quote
One thing, an awful lot of those deaths in Ireland were not registered within seven days!

Indeed, and even in the 1910's comparison of a burial register transcript with the GRO showed a reasonable number of deaths (and births for infants that lived days/weeks) that were not Registered at all.

The 1863 continued under the caption "Persons present at Death and others required to give Notice within Seven Days, and Information within Fourteen Days."

And the 1880 allowed up to a 1 year window for registration (clauses 10-14)

https://legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/26-27/11/enacted
https://legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/43-44/13/enacted

7
Down / Re: Seeking wife’s name & parentage of Hugh Shaw (b. c.1798, Saintfield, Co. Down)
« on: Saturday 01 November 25 16:57 GMT (UK)  »
Quote
Had a son Hugh William, born 7 February 1865, at Ballyagherty
Informant Ann Shaw, Present at Birth, Leggygowan
Ann Shaw of Leggygowan also registered David's birth 1866, son of James & Elizabeth nee Hanvy
https://irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1866/03522/2295715.pdf
I would agree she was grandmother and the informant on her 1877 death most likely her husband Hugh. Before the 1880 revision to the Birth & Death Act relationships to the deceased tended not to be recorded.

Original 1863 Act.
36. Some Person present at the Death or in attendance during the last Illness of any Person dying in Ireland after the said 31st December 1863, or the Occupier of the House or Tenement in which such Death took place, or if the Occupier be the Person who shall have died, then some One or more of the Persons residing in the House in which such Death took place, shall, within Seven Days next after the Day of such Death, give Notice of such Death to the Registrar of the District in which such Death occurred...and shall sign the Registry in the Presence of the Registrar.

Revised 1880
10. When a person dies in a house after the commencement of this Act [1 Jan 1881] it shall be the duty of the nearest relatives of the deceased present at the death, or in attendance during the last illness of the deceased, and in default of such relatives, of every other relative of the deceased dwelling or being in the same district as the deceased, and in default of such relatives of each person present at the death, and of the occupier of the house in which, to his knowledge, the death took place, and in default of the persons herein-before in this section mentioned, of each inmate of such house, and of the person causing the body ' of the deceased person to be buried, to give, to the best of his knowledge and belief, to the registrar, within the five days next following the day of such death, information of the particulars required to be registered concerning such death, and in the presence of the registrar to sign the register.

8
Antrim / Re: Bernard Bracken death?
« on: Thursday 30 October 25 19:19 GMT (UK)  »
with his son Bernard (26) and grandson Bernard (3) in the same building 1901 but listed as a seperate household Enumerators refs: 33.1 & 33.2. Both supposedly 49.
https://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Smithfield/Scotch_Street/974189/
https://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Smithfield/Scotch_Street/974190/

granddaughter Isabella aged 5 months died 27 Jan 1901 https://irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05739/4620377.pdf
Likely had a son Hugh too (death of Bernard Bracken aged 15 months 1906)

Isabella's death 1908 you mentioned, at Belfast Workhouse, of 29 Baker Street, aged 61. https://irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05481/4534943.pdf

Some deaths went unregistered, the informant never got round to it after the burial.
If he was in the same plot as Isabella the burial records would give you a date.

9
Down / Re: Seeking wife’s name & parentage of Hugh Shaw (b. c.1798, Saintfield, Co. Down)
« on: Thursday 30 October 25 17:03 GMT (UK)  »
and if click Leggygowan above & adjacent to /Residents of a house
there were Shaws at enumerators ref. 14, 21, 33, 34 & 41.
David being at ref. 21 aged 64, a spinster Eliza Shaw aged 71 at 33 & a Samuel 43 at #41.

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