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Thanks for the reply, and I think the information supplied is possibly more accurate than that which has been posted in public trees in Ancestry.com.   The reference in the 1857 Census as age 17 living with a McCormick family is almost certainly her, given that her future mother in law was an Anne McCormick.  Ellen married John Chambers who was also a weaver.   A previous researcher had suggested that William was a Draper (although no evidence was provided as to where this occupation came from) , although also stated that no parish records for William could be found.  Ellen (nee Livingston) and John Chambers lived in Bleary Road, Ballygargan, with Johns mother Anne McCormick (listed as occupier in the General Valuation of Tenements in 1864). This house was built about 1834, and in the 1980's was known to be still standing. The births of at least 4 of their children were registered in Portadown - I have a copy of these registrations - they list John Chambers of Ballygargan as being the father and Ellen nee Livingston as being the mother.
As to the rest of your information this provides some possibilities, without any real certainty, but I still believe the assumption by others (on Ancestry.com) of William coming from Yorkshire is probably incorrect.
Yesterday I was reading a site which said that many records from Armagh were destroyed in 1922, but it didn't say why or how they were destroyed?.
Thanks for your kind assistance.

Hi again...

PapersPast has the 1925 marriage

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wdx/

Way down south again. Can't see the Auckland connection so I think I'm on a wild goose chase :-)


Regards
Beg

In looking up the official BMD records there is a record of an Olive May Cook who married a Nathaniel Bates in 1925.  From the numbering  / 5   it would suggest that this was registered at the very beginning of 1925.
The official BMD reords record that an Olive May Cook was born in 1908 to Thomas William Cook and Elizabeth as the mother.
There is also a record of a Nathaniel Bates who died in 1964 at the age of 61 , and a birth record of a Nathanel Bates in 1902 to parents of Nathaniel and Bridget Bates,
This information is free online, but if you need places and exact dates then one would need to order a certificate - or better still a copy bof the registration which is slightly cheaper,

It is indeed a rare surname. The site surnames of England and Wales has information from 2001 census which gives no record of either version. This may be due to 2 reasons. 1) It is extinct or 2) There are less than 5 instances of the surname recorded. Do you have any further information and I will go back on the site?

There were a number of different spellings/variants of Penwell especially in the 1600's and 1700's with a few Piniwell's,Pynwell,Penniwill, Pennewell,Pinnywell, Pennywell, These names all relate to the that period and can be found on the Devon UK IGI Listed under PENWELL.  I have seen further different spelling of Penwell in the Channel Islands, such as Pinoil - which seems to have become Pinwill since 1837.   Again the names since official records came in in 1837 in the UK now tend to be Penwell and Penwill being the more common or Pinwell or Pinwill now.
I have not previously come across Puniwell but guess that since 1837 they have converted to using one of the four main ones, and my guess is the Pinwell spelling is the one that would be the most likely used.  The only Catherine in the IGI is a Catherine Pynwell christened in Woodbury in 12 August 1578.  My Research on Pinwells have mainly concentrated on Aveton Gifford (1654-1770's) and the Pinwells in Plymouth (1850 to present) i.e I haven't really looked at Stoke Dameral.  You mentioned the 2001 census - is this meant to be the 1901 or 1911 census?   If you would like the info on either the Pinwell's of Aveton Gifford and / or Plymouth please let me know which one(s) you would like so I can send it to you. My great grandfather and his brother were Pinwell's but changed to using the Penwell surname (My g grandfather in 1862, and his brother in the 1870's)
Regards
Eric
New Zealand

Hi

I have a William Alfred COUCH in my Tree. I believe he married Ella Joyce ELSON (born 21 Aug 1914 Nelson, died 9 Sep 1992 Whangaparoa) about 16 April 1938 in Tasman.  I had met Ella's mother as a child, as Ella's mother was a cousin of my mother.

Ella's grandmother was Susan Lempriere FISHER (nee MOORE) - born 10 Aug 1860 in Spreydon, Christchurch and Ella's grandfather was Arthur John FISHER (my grandfathers brother) (born 28 Mar 1861 - Heathcote Christchurch - died 8 Mar 1945 in Blenheim, and is buried in the Omaka Cemetery, Benheim).  Ella had a brother Edward John ELSON (born 16 Jan 1913 in Blenheim, and died 15 Jun 1997 in Australia), whose family moved to Melbourne Australia - I do have details of most of this Australian Branch.

As far as the Couch family goes the only detail I have of William and Ella's children are: (I am unsure as to the acurracy of this but what I have is:

^(*) born about 26 Aug 1939
^(*)born about 25 Jan 1942
^(*)born about 12 Jan 1947.

I would like more detail on these 3 children in exchange I can provide further information on Ella Joyce's ancestors, and her Australian connection.

Eric, Wellington, New Zealand

<sup>(*)

(*)</sup> Moderator Comment:
Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

Sorry about trying to publish possible people living, as this was the first use at this site. However the first and second (*) was a person who was mentioned in a previous message by another member and she died in 1992, and the brother referenced in the third (*) died in 1997, and he would have been over 100 by now.  The last 3 (*) are people who could still possibly be living, so I apologise for those.
Eric

Have also come across Pinwill and Penwill quite a few times in Devon, and one should not discount these as often records in the 1800's use a variation of spellings, depending on what the census enumerator, or vicar/verger heard when he wrote a persons name down.  Also where records are transcribed for online searches there are often errors made between the variants.  e.g. today I looked up a death record for a stillborn child in Ancestry.com, whos first name was transcribed as Lefaub but when I looked at the original handwritten death record it was "Infant"