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Messages - Nivekdrawoh

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1
Lancashire / Re: WILSON Lancashire/MUNDY/Irish/RYAN Irish
« on: Tuesday 21 January 14 08:52 GMT (UK)  »
REPLY to Rolnora
Thank you
Re your post :-
I didn't want to leave Charles F Wilson when I did yesterday but needs must and all that.
Heywood and Amram you guys did a great job moving it all forward and making it all fit together.
The only thing that I want to add and then I'll leave it alone is that I think that the Charles Frederick Wilson who died 1871 was the son of Charles F and Martha. Image of his baptism can be found on Family Search.

My REPLY
Yes, thank you everyone for having a go at moving this forward, greatly appreciated everyones efforts !!!!!.
However, how can my Charles Frederick Wilson plumber, born about Cir 1853 (and no death (died between 1881 and 1891) or birth cert can be found)), who was supposed to be married to Elizabeth NEE Mundy, (family name) Wilson b1853 and records show Elizabeth nee Mundy with her son John William Wilson b 1875 M/C....
I am wondering why everyone is attempting to convince me MY Mystery Charles Frederick Wilson B Cir 1853 is married to A.. Martha (somebody) and not an Elizabeth Mundy, which records show.... What is everyone else observing that I am not, please, and why am I being channelled to a family which has coincidental names which I can`t make fit the case..???????? :-\

2
Lancashire / Re: WILSON Lancashire/MUNDY/Irish/RYAN Irish
« on: Tuesday 21 January 14 08:33 GMT (UK)  »
Reply to Heywood stan
Thank you for this information,explains a lot...!!!!
Re our post
A Scripture Reader, who had to be a communicant of the Church of England for at least two years, was nominated by the minister of the parish to the bishop, to be examined as to his fitness for the office, either by the bishop himself or someone appointed for that purpose. On being approved the scripture reader was then  appointed in writing by the bishop, and was under the control and direction of the glergyman who nominated him. It was the duty of the scripture reader to search out the most destitute and ignorant of the parishioners, and to read the Holy Scriptures from house to house. They were strictly prohibited from carrying, distributing, or reading from any book or publication except the Old and New Testament, the Book of Common Prayer, and any books sanctioned by the the incumbent. They were also strictly forbidden to preach anywhere.

My reply
So take it, this office in abt 1861 is in some ways the same as a reader today in the Anglican church...With certain restrictions  lifted as today they can preach, and distribute the communion bread and wine,in a short service in homes and visit the sick in hospital. This John Hayes b1799, who eventually gravitated from Worksop via Huddersfield to Hulme  welcom st M/C
 (in 1851),  who was a master cabinet maker in M/C and purported to be a devout (whatever that means) christian. So this would fit....Thank you....

3
Lancashire / Re: WILSON Lancashire/MUNDY/Irish/RYAN Irish
« on: Monday 20 January 14 20:32 GMT (UK)  »
Reply to Welsh Lady
Thank you...
RE your post
have you got documentation or certs, family bible that states Elizabeth Mundy is your Johns mother or did you trace back on census as we've all done that and sometimes gone wrong.
Recapping we know Elizabeth Mundy birth reg gives mothers maiden name as Kelly.1871 down as surname Kelly.1881 surname back to Mundy .However a likely marriage to John Wilson was found (Not Charles) they had a son John same name as yours and age however his occupation doesnt match the later census when your  John is married.
However the other family found Charles Frederick Wilson and Martha , Fathers name and occupation corresponds with marriage cert and they also have a son John whos age and occupation matches your John when hes married
If you send for birth cert of John puzzle should be solved then

Don`t know what is going on there with Elizabeth nee Mundy b 1853 now a wilson,1881 because on 1881 censusRG113965 Salford, she is with her mother Margaret Mundy widow Ireland, brother Joseph Mundy and Clara mundy....My ggrandfather is there too, John William Wilson b1875 Salford m/c age 6 with his sister Margt Ellen 1873 (she must have died young because he did not mention her...)
In 1861 Census gorton Margaret Mundy b 1821 Ireland is with her son MATHEW BRIEN age 21 b Ireland 1840, so she either had him before marriage and her MAIDEN name was BRIEN or she was wed `afore in Ireland to a Brien. 
My grandmother Elizabeth Wilson B 1896 talked about a rouge called Mundy in the family, and used to tease her father John William Wilson b 1875 about the Irish leprechaun in his blood...

4
Lancashire / Re: WILSON Lancashire/MUNDY/Irish/RYAN Irish
« on: Monday 20 January 14 20:15 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks AMRAM
re your post eg...
I can see John W and Hannah's marriage which shows her father as Edwin. This fits with Edwin (born Huddersfield) and Elizabeth Hayes in Moston (next to Harpurhey) in 1871.
From 1911 indexes, the family look to be in Oldham by then.
Lancashire BMD has a birth for Edwin Wilson mother's maiden name Hayes.

Yes, Edwin Hayes b 1835 is father to Hannah Hayes b1876, who wed John William Wilson b1875...(whose father is still a mystery) and mother was Elizabeth Taylor (not THE famous elizabeth Taylor) b 10mar 1849 Kirkby Stephen, and she moved to M/C to work, she was a widow in 1881 in Prestwich M/C to where they had moved from Huddersfield. Hannah Hayesb1876 was orphaned her father Edwin Hayes b1835 huddersfield, died or was killed (not found out this mystery yet), then Elizabeth Taylor died...Edwin Hayes born huddersfield because his father (john Hayesb1799 in Worksop with wife Hannah Guest Hayes from tickhill) moved there.
John Hayes was a SCRIPTURE READER in manchester cathedral in 1861 (census hulme rg92888) does anyone know what that was, was it like the readers in a church now, or something else in 1861??????

5
Lancashire / Re: WILSON Lancashire/MUNDY/Irish/RYAN Irish
« on: Monday 20 January 14 18:52 GMT (UK)  »
Reply to amram
Thank you for this reply.....
Re....
WILSON is a common name, I know, I'm one!
Look over all your info from the beginning. Do you have the birth cert of your grandmother Elizabeth?
I cannot find the marriage you mention of J W Wilson to Hannah Hayes, do you  have the certificate?
I am intrigued as you now.

Grandmother Elizabeth Wilson b 1896 cert yes..John William Wilson b 1875 father and Hannah Hayes mother.... These two JW and Hannah eloped from M/C to south crosland huddersfield because he JW Wilson got her with child and she went to her aunts Jane Sykes nee Hayes and to church there to get wed....in 1894Oct, and charles Frederick Wilson`s first child was B 1895..... John William Wilson b 1875 on his Marr Cert Names father as Charles Frederick Wilson Plumber.....

6
Lancashire / Re: WILSON Lancashire/MUNDY/Irish/RYAN Irish
« on: Monday 20 January 14 18:36 GMT (UK)  »
REPLY TO HEYWOOD
Thanking you...........
Reply to your post re......
It is confusing as there are a couple of John William and then there are John Wilsons - of similar ages.

I asked you re the occupations on marriage etc and who your John married.

1901 has this family - I wonder is it yours? If not, it looks as though he is the son of Charles and Martha.

117 Conran Street Harpurhey

John W Wilson 26 yrs  Letterpress Printer b Manchester
Hannah Wilson 25 yrs
Charles F Wilson 6 yrs
Elizabeth Wilson 4 yrs
Gladys Wilson 2 yrs

In 1891 Charles and Martha's son John W Wilson is 16 yrs and is a Printer's Apprentice.

Your John (Elizabeth Mundy)  is a circular sawyer in 1891.

This indeed is the correct family as per my previous post and so my John William Wilson B 1875 and the Charles Frederick Wilson above age 6 b1895 is my uncle......So not the father of JW but the CF wilson who was named AFTER the mysterious Charles Frederick Wilson Cir 1853.....who we can`t pin down and I have not sussed this out for nearly 25 years. There must be something really odd with this lot????

7
Lancashire / Re: WILSON Lancashire/MUNDY/Irish/RYAN Irish
« on: Monday 20 January 14 18:03 GMT (UK)  »
Reply to Rolnora
Thank you....

Reply re...
Sarah Jane Wilson ,  with father Charles F, a plumber.....and she was marrying another WILSON
Have had a look at this marr cert now and the father is deceased which he would be if Elizabeth nee Mundy Wilson b 1853 was a widow from a Wilson in 1891, and a Sarah Jane b 1883 was the last child of Charles F Wilson, plumber.  (so the deceased bit would FIT)
CF Wilson DIED between 1881 and 1891..presumably work related death.....

8
Lancashire / Re: WILSON Lancashire/MUNDY/Irish/RYAN Irish
« on: Monday 20 January 14 17:32 GMT (UK)  »
Reply to amram thank you...

  Re.....post....
Marriage: 3 May 1869, Christ Church, Bradford, Manchester
Charles Frederick WILSON , Plumber and gas fitter, to Martha Ellen Pemberton.
Image is on family search. This surely fits with the father on the marriage cert of John William.
Sorry can't figure out how to link!Report to moderator....

Reply...... Martha Ellen Pemberton is not the wife, to my Charles Frederick Wilson, it is Elizabeth nee Mundy. b 1853...If Martha Ellen would be a wife, he may be a bigamist, and be working two families, hence his disappearance.   

9
Lancashire / Re: WILSON Lancashire/MUNDY/Irish/RYAN Irish
« on: Monday 20 January 14 16:49 GMT (UK)  »
Reply to Heywood Thank you.....

Yes, mother to John William Wilson b 1875 was Elizabeth nee Mundy and he named my maternal grandmother after her.

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