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Messages - Cas (stallc)

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1
Only your DNA can give clues Ed, all else is speculation or assumption.

No real relationship to the Jones family until after he married. Maybe after years they thought of him as son and his children were a bonus, they were childless after all. Looks like he looked out for them when older and the boy they adopted.

If Betsy was his mother, she was only around 17 when he was born. It could be a childhood sweetheart or as you say someone from the pub.

Maybe build a separate tree for the Jenkins/Mansell family and pad out with extended family. Then go looking to see if any matches with your DNA.

I mentioned pro tools as just finished a month myself. Interesting how the small matches can help make sense of some family lines. Ancestry only show those shared matches 20cMs and above without it.

Good luck

Cas


2
A little thought scenario...

There is nothing to state he was left in the workhouse, only the birth which Elizabeth/Betsy would have used for birth/maternity care, as was the case for the poor outside of home delivery at that time.

As mentioned, it could be possible that Betsy sent money for his care. When infants it was called nurse child.

The info found by Ciderdrinker, reply #20, that father James was living Church Street, SWEENEY in 1821 and family at Church Street in 1841 and 1851 it is a very good possible that the Jones knew the family, or knew of them. (Family were also innkeepers/publicans)

Also as mentioned there is a good possible that he may have a Jones father that is connected to Joseph or Elizabeth. Hence the Jones surname.  I would think to try prove/disprove this is Edwards bio family, would be through DNA, as that is the only truth teller nobody can escape from.

Just a few thoughts....

3
Just for info, it seems boarding out was not an official practice until around 1868

https://www.workhouses.org.uk/boardingout/

4
There is a Richard Mansell b c 1777 retired farmer  living in Kinton in census b Kinnerley, dies in 1870 but does not state married or widowed. Up to Ed if thinks there is a connection.

Ed - Pro tools for a month (£7.99) can be a positive as it shows match relationships and gives the smaller under 20cMs. If connected by DNA to this family there must be at least a few small matches to the name Mansell maybe.

5
Well found ciderdrinker, the marriage bond (licence) at NLW has him as Jenkyns

Jenkyns, James, bach., Oswestry, Shropshire to Mansell, Mary, sp., Wrexham, Denbighshire : 1831 Jun 20. ARCHIVES ; St. Asaph A 173/98

Marriage - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62103/records/840847

Licence - https://discover.library.wales/permalink/44WHELF_NLW/cn21ca/alma99162947702419

6
The Aunt Margaret Gee, widow in 1851 was b c 1810 in Kinton, Shropshire

There is this marriage

Margaret Mansell
Marriage Date   4 May 1824
Marriage Place   Great Ness, Shropshire, England
Residence Date   1824
Residence Place   Great Ness
Religion   Anglican
Spouse   Thomas Gee
Page number   9
Reference Number   P114/A/3/2

If access - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62290/records/19896
Pallots - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/5967/records/636076

Kinton is a township within Great Ness

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SAL/GreatNess

1861 b c 1807 looks likely she is in Derby with son Thomas Ratcliff Gee b c 1827

1861 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8767/records/23908519

Thomas married 1869 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/61409/records/1571498

1871 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/7619/records/24621179

Possible death in 1878 Derby, age 71

Would check to see if you have any possible shared matches to your Jenkins source, that could connect to extended family


7
Possible deaths for parents of Elizabeth/Betsy

JENKINS, MARY   age  46  (b c 1800)
GRO Reference: 1846  J Quarter in OSWESTRY  Volume 18  Page 126

JENKINS, JAMES    age 57
GRO Reference: 1847  D Quarter in OSWESTRY  Volume 18  Page 115

James Jenkins
Burial Age   57
Birth Date   abt 1790
Death Date   1847
Burial Date   1 Oct 1847
Burial Place   Oswestry, St Oswald's, Shropshire, England
Religion   Anglican
Page number   190
Refernce Number   P214/A/4/
(b c 1790, information as good as informant knowledge, or 1841 age is out, but in 1841 age can be rounded down to nearest 5)

Cas

8
I also cannot find a Jenkins/Mansell marriage but I am sure her surname was Mansell not Gee. There were likely 2 sons William born to couple

JENKINS, WILLIAM    mmn MANSELL 
GRO Reference: 1840  D Quarter in OSWESTRY  Volume 18  Page 161

This was the son in 1841 not indexed with family, died age 10mths

William Jenkins
Burial Age   10 Months
Birth Date   abt 1840
Death Date   1841
Burial Date   6 Sep 1841
Burial Place   Oswestry, St Oswald's, Shropshire, England
Religion   Anglican
Page number   112
Refernce Number   P214/A/4/5

JENKINS, WILLIAM    mmn MANSELL 
GRO Reference: 1842  S Quarter in OSWESTRY  Volume 18  Page 142

No images on Anc* familysearch may have?

William Jenkins
Baptism Date   1 Sep 1842
Baptism Place   Oswestry,Shropshire,England
Death Date   15 Sep 1844
Father   James Jenkins
Mother   Mary
FHL Film Number   501462, 501463, 501464
 
Deaths are on GRO

Also cannot find anything on Elizabeth/Betsy after 1861. It could be possible she was sending money to the Jones family for his keep. Parish relief did not pay out easily if there was someone responsible, why was he not in the workhouse? Although his surname is Jones?  By 1871 he would have been able to earn himself.

Cas

9
Shropshire Lookup Requests / Re: A Great Grandfather Mystery (Help please)
« on: Saturday 15 November 25 23:31 GMT (UK)  »
Looks a good possible 1861 in Rugby Warwickshire servant to Maude household

Betsey Jenkins,   23   Servant
Estimated Birth Year   1838
Born Oswestry, Shropshire, England
Living Rugby, Warwickshire

1861 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8767/records/21319377

Added - possible connection, also looks like a Jane Mansell in same household as nurse age 43.


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