Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - venelow

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 60
1
The Common Room / Re: "Separated" as marital status in 1836 marriage banns.
« on: Saturday 06 September 25 00:00 BST (UK)  »
While it is obvious from the details discussed in this thread that "sp" should be interpreted as short for Spinster it is not correct to say that Separation in marriage is a modern concept.

I have a couple in one of my trees who gained a Legal Separation from an Ecclesiastical Court which was possible to do but very costly. The catch was that neither party could re-marry as long as both were alive.

The wife wrote in her Will dated 1703 that she had a Legal Separation from the Church. She then proceeded to leave goods and money acquired through her linen business (which included the rental of child-bed linen) to her son from her first marriage and her daughter from her second. She left money to two younger sons.

A search on the Internet finds numerous references regarding Ecclesiastical Separation including this one which also mentions that sometimes Separations were made privately and did not involve the Church Court at all.

https://news.smu.ca/news/2022/2/14/uncovering-new-twists-in-the-legal-history-of-marriage-and-divorce-in-englandnbspnbspnbsp

Venelow
Canada

2
The Common Room / Re: What is an Orriell?
« on: Tuesday 09 April 24 15:18 BST (UK)  »
Good Morning

Thank you for your responses. It makes perfect sense that the chest was situated in the bay window space of the oriel. I had heard of oriel before but I associated it with public buildings like churches or colleges. The testator, John Bowdler of Shrewsbury, must have had a pretty fancy house. I think he may have been a draper hence the lace and stuff in the chest which he refers to as wares.

Thanks again
Venelow
Canada



3
The Common Room / What is an Orriell?
« on: Monday 08 April 24 17:32 BST (UK)  »
Good Day Roots Chatters

Has anyone come across the word Orriell? I am transcribing a PCC Will from the late 1500s.

One line reads:

  "Item I give him more all the Wares in the Cheste in the Orriell which is Lace and such like stuff."

I can only find Orriell as a surname or possibly a place name. The second and third letters are definitely two "Rs" as written in the words more and Wares.

It sounds like it is a room in the house or maybe an out-building.

Any thoughts? 

Venelow.
Canada

4
Wiltshire / Re: Missing Parish of Nabels or similar.
« on: Thursday 21 December 23 15:55 GMT (UK)  »
Hi ribbo39

Thank you for that additional information.

Venelow

5
Wiltshire / Re: Missing Parish of Nabels or similar.
« on: Wednesday 20 December 23 19:39 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you Galium and arthurk and Caprtown

Your additional information and spelling led me to British History on Line. They have a section on Malmesbury Hundred and quite detailed accounts of each parish.

The section on Sutton Benger does not mention it at all but the write ups on Stanton St Quentin and Draycot Cerne do. Apparently bits got sold off and boundaries were moved. It is shown on a map of Draycot Cerne Parish dated 1839 in British History on Line. It was extraparochial until 1830 which probably accounted for some confusion.

So it was never a Parish. According to the information found by Capetown it was in Sutton Benger in the 1500s. But by the time of the 1799 marriage it was most likely in Draycot Cerne. I guess parish boundaries are subject to change from time to time.

Looking on Google Street View I found that the farm is still there and is accessed from a road called Scotland Hill a little north of the M4. There is a smart sign at the entrance for Nables Farm.

Also thanks for the information about the Sarum Marriage Licences Galium. I'd forgotten about Sarum.

Venelow
Canada



6
Wiltshire / Missing Parish of Nabels or similar.
« on: Tuesday 19 December 23 20:50 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Wiltshire Chatters

I have been looking at a marriage entry from Christian Malford dated 1799. It is stated the bride, Joanna Fry, is of the Parish of Nabels. It is quite clearly written but I cannot find any parish with that name. Google suggests I mean Naples.

I feel that the name of the Parish has been misheard or misread from another document. They were married by Licence which might provide a clue but unfortunately there are no Wiltshire Marriage Licence records on Ancestry or Find My Past.

This marriage was between Samuel Hull (of Christian Malford) and Joanna Fry and can be seen on Ancestry by searching Church of England Wiltshire Marriages 1754 - 1916.

Any ideas about Nabels gratefully received.

Venelow
Canada

7
Yorkshire (North Riding) / Re: Spenceley & Kirby Misperton Parish Registers
« on: Monday 23 October 23 20:05 BST (UK)  »
Hi ramjo

Thank you for that information. I have just had a look and although there were some Spencely marriages there are none for George in the time frame I am interested in.

He must have married elsewhere.

Venelow
Canada

8
The Common Room / Re: Second wife of Thomas Barkley/Berkley
« on: Friday 08 September 23 19:18 BST (UK)  »
Hello Amondg

Thank you for your response.
Yes, Thomas Jobber does mention his daughters Elizabeth and Jane but my remarks were concerning the Will of Thomas Barkley/Berkley who died in 1646. As well as his sons, William (mother Margrett Corbet) and Francis (mother Jane Unknown), he had two daughters, Elizabeth and Jane by his first wife Margrett Corbett. Some trees state Elizabeth died in Virginia.

Thomas Barkley was a lawyer and barrister and his long and complicated Will reflects that. I have not transcribed it yet, being focused on his wife and children rather than complicated deeds regarding his land. Another interesting thing is that one of the witnesses to Thomas Barkley's Will is Beatrice Fryth who later married Edward Jobber, the brother of Thomas Jobber. Maybe she introduced Jane to Thomas Jobber.

I have previously looked the PCC Will for (Jana) or Jane Jobber. It is on Ancestry under the name Gobber.  The probate date is incorrectly given as 31 May 1671 not 1672 and the parish is transcribed as Brosten rather than Broseley.  She states she is of Rowton in the Parish of Broseley. Genuki has several places called Rowton listed in the Shropshire pages but none are in Broseley. It probably no longer exists or was the name of a house.

This Jane Jobber who died about 1672 was a sister of Thomas Jobber 1616-1688. She mentions some of her sisters in her Will. Their parents were Richard Jobber of Aston, Shropshire (died 1650) and Mary Littleton a granddaughter of Sir Edward Littleton of Pillaton Hall Staffordshire.  Richard and Mary had 4 sons and 6 daughters in total if the pedigree is correct. My ancestor is one of the daughters.

Regarding the parish registers, there are Shropshire registers on Find My Past. The more recent have been transcribed but many of the older records have not. Some parts are missing and many are in very poor condition and hard to read.  Probably Wills are the way to go when the PRs are illegible but it's very hit and miss.

Thanks again for your input
Venelow
Canada

9
The Common Room / Second wife of Thomas Barkley/Berkley
« on: Friday 08 September 23 02:36 BST (UK)  »
Hi Rootschatters

I am having a hard time finding a couple of marriages.

Thomas Barkley or Berkley son of Francis Berkley MP for Shrewsbury in the early 1600s married Margret Corbett the daughter of Sir Andrew Corbett of Moreton Corbett in Shropshire about 1636 or 1637. They had three children: William 1638, Elizabeth 1639 and Martha 1640. All baptized at Moreton Corbett Shropshire.

Then Margrett died and was buried at Morton Corbett 28 July 1642.

In October 1645 another son, Francis, was born to Thomas Barkley and baptized in the Parish of Worfield. His mother's name was stated to be Jane.

Then Thomas died and was buried on October 30 1646 at Worfield as Mr Thomas Barkley of Yewdnes Esq. He made his wife Jane Sole Executrix of his Will. He mentions both his sons William and Francis.
He does not mention his daughters but I have not found a burial for either of them.

In 1651 a son Thomas was born to Thomas Jobber of Ewdnes in the parish of Worfield. Parts of that entry are missing but his next child Mary was baptized 13 Jan 1652-3 and the entry names his wife as Jane.

In a very interesting Will for Thomas Jobber in 1688 it is revealed that his wife Jane Jobber is the former wife of Thomas Barkley. He complains that she has left his house and gone to live with her son Francis Barkley.

Most trees on line state the Jane who was the second wife of Thomas Barkley was called Jane Crumpton but no confirming information is given.

A pedigree for the Jobber family names Jane as the daughter of Thomas Madocks of Wolverhampton.

I have not been able to find either the second marriage of Thomas Barkley or the marriage of Thomas Jobber.

Any thoughts, suggestions or information gratefully received.

Venelow
Canada





Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 60