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Messages - telesnap

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Hi RBC, sorry this took so long!  The 1831 has no Christian names & comprises numbers in columns under various categories.  There are 2 entires for Cullen:

Alpha Road no. 32, householder CULLEN, 2 families occupying house, none in trade, manufacture, handicraft or agriculture.  4 males & 4 females, all males over 20 years old.  Of the males, none are occupiers of land, ag labs, or in manufacture, retail trade or handicrafts.  2 of the males are 'wholesale merchants, bankers, professional & other educated men'.  1 of the males is a labourer not in agriculture.  1 of the males is classed as 'retired tradesmen superannuated labourers, disabled/insane'.  1 of the males is a servant under 20 years old. [this must be wrong, if all the males are over 20]  1 of the females is a servant.

Blandford Street no 26, householder CULLEN, 4 families occupying house, none in trade, manufacture or handicraft.  1 family in agriculture.  4 males, 7 females, 3 of the males are over 20 years old.  Of the males, none are occupiers of land, ag labs or in manufacture.  2 of the males are in retail trade or handicraft.  1 of the males is a labourer not in agriculture.  None of the males are classed as 'educated men' etc, none are retired etc, & none are servants.  None of the females are servants.

There was nothing under Shalders, the only potential spelling variant was Shaller (or poss. Shallen):

Charles Street MH no 19, householder SHALLER, 3 families occupying house, none in trade, manufacture or handicraft, 2 families in agriculture.  6 males, 7 females, 2 of the males over 20 years old.  None of the males are occupiers of land, ag labs or in manufacture.  1 male is in trade or handicraft.  1 male is classed as 'wholesale merchants, bankers, professional & other educated men'.  None of the males are labourers not in agriculture, none are classed as retired etc & none are servants.  3 of the females are servants.

Phew!  If you PM me your email address, I could send you a scan with the columns set out, which might be easier to make sense of.   :)

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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: CULL family on 1831 Marylebone census
« on: Wednesday 31 January 07 10:51 GMT (UK)  »
Hi RBC,
not sure when I'll next be at Westminster archives (where the index is), but if you don't mind waiting a few weeks I'll add your names to my 'to do' list.   :)

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Hello, the 1831 Marylebone census only shows the surname of the head of the household & only vague info on the other inhabitants eg how many males, how many females etc.  There is a surname index, but no entry for Cull.  Sorry!

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Surrey Completed Look up Requests / Re: 1851 census - Richmond, Surrey
« on: Wednesday 25 January 06 11:25 GMT (UK)  »
Hi again!
Just remembered that Richmond Libraries' website has a lot of info on Hill Street, including censuses for each house number, at
www.richmond.gov.uk/home/leisure_and_culture/local_history_and_heritage/local_studies_collection/a_walk_down_hill_street.htm
Hope this helps!   :)

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Surrey Completed Look up Requests / Re: 1851 census - Richmond, Surrey
« on: Monday 23 January 06 17:34 GMT (UK)  »
Hello,
that might be 'Mount ARARAT House' in 1841 - present day Mount Ararat Road in Richmond intersects with another road called The Vineyard.   :)

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Herts Completed Lookup Requests / Re: 1851 Census - Shenley
« on: Saturday 27 August 05 22:01 BST (UK)  »
Hi Fliss,

Yes please I'd like to see your tree, & see if it helps sort out this muddle!  Isabella Howard was my great great granny, so if I could find the right Thomas he'd be a triple great!

Does Hudnall have it's own parish records?  According to http://www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/data/answers/answers-2001/ans-0167-hudnall.htm it was part of the parish of Edelsborough (Bucks).  IGI has 3 baptism entries for children of Thomas & Ann in Edelsborough, Thomas (2 Mar 1806), James (7 Jun 1812) & Sarah (22 Jun 1817), but no Mary Ann, & no guarantee that those 3 were in Hudnall.  In fact IGI shows various sets of Thomas & Ann in various places, but none of them conclusively 'fit', if you know what I mean!

The Society of Genealogists has marriages up to 1812 for Edelsborough, but not baptisms.  I could have a look for Thomas & Ann next time I'm up there.

How do you fit your John born 1820 with the John on the IGI born 1832 in Shenley, son of Thomas & Ann??  I'm a bit suspicious of multiple Thomases & Anns!  Or perhaps with that 'niece' entry, that there might be 2 Thomas's in different generations (or more).  Also isn't it confusing that there's one Shenley in Hertfordshire & another 2 Shenleys in Bucks!  Took me a while to figure that out, grr!
 :)

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Herts Completed Lookup Requests / Re: 1851 Census - Shenley
« on: Thursday 25 August 05 14:40 BST (UK)  »
Hi Fliss!

My Isabella Howard m. James King 8-Feb-1842 in St George Hanover Square London, giving her father as Thomas Howard, painter.

On 1871 & 1881 censuses, she gives her place of birth as Shenley Hill, Hertfordshire.  Haven't (yet) got 1851.  On 1861, it's difficult to read but looks like 'Bedfordshire Bre...water'.

Her age is 22 in 1841 (when she was a servant in her employer's household, along with future hubby James), 44 in 1861, 52 in 1871, 62 in 1881, & 68 at death on 7-May-1886.

Looking for her birth on IGI, I didn't find her in Shenley, but did find Isabelle, daughter of Thomas Howard & Ann, Christened 25-Jan-1818, Great Gaddesden.  The transcript of Great Gaddesden records at the Society of Genealogists gives Isabella, b. 25-Dec-1817, daughter of Thomas and Ann, of Hudnall, plumber & glazier.  This appears to connect to the Shenley Howards, as Mary Ann Howard, dau of Thomas, was also b. Hudnall, & Thomas of Shenley is a painter (in 1841 & on Isabella's m. cert.) & also a plumber & glazer (1851, & at Isabella's Christening).

I was hoping that Isabella might be an elder sibling of the Shenley Howards, children of Thomas & Ann.  Isabella & Mary Ann were both born in Hudnall, & not long apart.  However the niece Isabella King in 1851 suggests that my Isabella Howard was a sister of Thomas, not a daughter.  But if that's right then Thomas's parents must be ANOTHER set of Thomas and Ann.

Alternatively 'niece' could be a mistake.  Perhaps one of Thomas's offspring filled out the form & they put little Isabella down as their niece rather than as Thomas's granddaughter.

Very confusing!  All help appreciated!  Does this fit into your tree??   :)

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Herts Completed Lookup Requests / Re: 1851 Census - Shenley
« on: Saturday 20 August 05 13:06 BST (UK)  »
Pete, thanks for 1841, I found it helpful too!

Fliss, I think we're looking for the same people.  1851 as follows:

1701/136/1 f. 27:
Harris's Lane Shenley (2 households along from The Rookery):
Thomas Howard Head Widower 57 Plumber & Glazer Shenley Herts
Mary Ann Howard Daughter U 30                                Bucks
Caroline Howard do             do 27                              Shenley Herts
Thomas Howard Son            do 21                              Shenley Herts
Letitia S.Howard Daughter   do 15                              Shenley Herts
Isabella King       Niece         do 9                                Middlesex
James Smith        Nephew    do 5                                Hertfordshire
Emma Palmer      Daughter   Married 20                      Shenley Herts.

f. 49 (v)
Shenley Hill
Ann Howard Head Widow 73 Independent   Herts, St. Peters

f. 53 (v)
Rowley Green
William Howard Head Mar 55 Farmer of 20 Acres   Herts St. Michels
Susan Do            Wife   Mar 53 Farmer's Wife   Do St Stephens
Caroline Do       Daur   U    22 At Home / Farmer's Daur Herts Shenley
Harriett Do        Do      U    17   Do / Do             Do Do

also [sorry didn't note page!]
Shenley
William Howard Head Mar 28   Ag Labourer   Middx South Mims
Jane Do            Wife   Mar 25         Herts Shenley.

My interest is in an Isabella Howard, daughter of a Thomas Howard, a painter, from Shenley.  She was already working in London by 1841.  I think this Isabella King age 9 in 1851 may be her daughter, but I reckon she ought to be granddaughter not niece here, if this is the right Thomas!

Cheers!   :)

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