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Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark / Re: The D'Assigny family of Jersey
« on: Monday 14 April 14 16:40 BST (UK) »
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Somerset / Re: SS Peter & Paul, Shepton Mallet, headstones
« on: Saturday 22 March 14 17:28 GMT (UK) »
Hello.
Back in 1992 I plotted all the headstones in the churchyard of St.Peter & St.Paul's, Shepton Mallet. Not all the headstones were complete, or readable, but I transcribed what was legible at that time.
Sadly, there were no Snellings recorded, nor any part names that could have been 'John Snellings'.
But this is only the churchyard. The cemetery would have been in use by 1876, but that has not been transcribed.
IJD
Back in 1992 I plotted all the headstones in the churchyard of St.Peter & St.Paul's, Shepton Mallet. Not all the headstones were complete, or readable, but I transcribed what was legible at that time.
Sadly, there were no Snellings recorded, nor any part names that could have been 'John Snellings'.
But this is only the churchyard. The cemetery would have been in use by 1876, but that has not been transcribed.
IJD
3
The Common Room / Oral family history
« on: Monday 04 November 13 22:10 GMT (UK) »
If this has been discussed elsewhere, please direct me to the appropriate thread. 
I'm interested in the reliability of oral history, and wondered whether anyone on here has investigated the family stories handed down to them, and what they had discovered as to the truth, falsity or twisted facts of these oral transmissions. How old were these stories, and how had they varied between collateral lines and over time?
I have three examples;
On my father's line he had a story from a cousin that their ancestor had fought a travelling pugilist at a fair and won the match, but the opponent died from his injuries. A more distant cousin had a version that this ancestor had been put up by his employer to participate in the fight and that he had won a pot of money from it (but no death involved).
Looking at where these different cousins joined up, it seemed this event must have occurred no later than the mid-nineteenth century. Eventually another cousin discovered the truth - in the mid nineteenth century two neighbouring villages were disputing about the ownership of a piece of land that lay between them. To resolve the issue each village put up two men to fight a boxing match - the winning village to take ownership of the plot of land. My ancestor was one of those men put forward, and he and his fellow boxer won the match, becoming minor local celebrities in the process. No deaths are recorded in the historical detail, nor any cash rewards, but it would be unusual if the locals hadn't placed bets on who was to win, and maybe my ancestor did gain money through it for it seems that shortly afterwards he went from being a farm labourer to being a farmer.
So this oral history survived 170 years, and whilst true in the main, gained some sensationalism and became two different variations.
Another example is from my mother's side.
My mother's mother and uncle believed they descended from a squire who's daughter ran away with the coachman while on her way to school in London. A distant cousin had a similar story, minus the London school, but adding that the squire altered his will so that only the daughters of his runaway daughter could inherit, and that this female inheritance tradition has continued in the family.
This was supposed to have happened in the early nineteenth century, and my researches have shown that the remembered localities of the events are correct, and that there is a connection with a family of 'independent means' (although on the groom's side rather than the bride), and, more curious, there is a tradition of the daughters, or daughters of daughters, in the family gaining inheritance over the sons (and some cousin-marriages that look as if they are trying to keep this inheritance in the male line).
Again truth in a story from 200 years before, but it seems garbled in some way that I have not yet discovered.
My final example is about a cup and saucer my grandmother gave me. She told me it was given to her by her paternal grandmother, who had it from her grandmother. This takes the object back to before 1830, a date that fits well with the Regency period date given to it by an antique dealer. Unfortunately no anecdote is attached to the object.
I'd be interested to hear about your own researches into family stories, and how you either unraveled the truth, or got knotted in the details.
I'm interested in the reliability of oral history, and wondered whether anyone on here has investigated the family stories handed down to them, and what they had discovered as to the truth, falsity or twisted facts of these oral transmissions. How old were these stories, and how had they varied between collateral lines and over time?
I have three examples;
On my father's line he had a story from a cousin that their ancestor had fought a travelling pugilist at a fair and won the match, but the opponent died from his injuries. A more distant cousin had a version that this ancestor had been put up by his employer to participate in the fight and that he had won a pot of money from it (but no death involved).
Looking at where these different cousins joined up, it seemed this event must have occurred no later than the mid-nineteenth century. Eventually another cousin discovered the truth - in the mid nineteenth century two neighbouring villages were disputing about the ownership of a piece of land that lay between them. To resolve the issue each village put up two men to fight a boxing match - the winning village to take ownership of the plot of land. My ancestor was one of those men put forward, and he and his fellow boxer won the match, becoming minor local celebrities in the process. No deaths are recorded in the historical detail, nor any cash rewards, but it would be unusual if the locals hadn't placed bets on who was to win, and maybe my ancestor did gain money through it for it seems that shortly afterwards he went from being a farm labourer to being a farmer.
So this oral history survived 170 years, and whilst true in the main, gained some sensationalism and became two different variations.
Another example is from my mother's side.
My mother's mother and uncle believed they descended from a squire who's daughter ran away with the coachman while on her way to school in London. A distant cousin had a similar story, minus the London school, but adding that the squire altered his will so that only the daughters of his runaway daughter could inherit, and that this female inheritance tradition has continued in the family.
This was supposed to have happened in the early nineteenth century, and my researches have shown that the remembered localities of the events are correct, and that there is a connection with a family of 'independent means' (although on the groom's side rather than the bride), and, more curious, there is a tradition of the daughters, or daughters of daughters, in the family gaining inheritance over the sons (and some cousin-marriages that look as if they are trying to keep this inheritance in the male line).
Again truth in a story from 200 years before, but it seems garbled in some way that I have not yet discovered.
My final example is about a cup and saucer my grandmother gave me. She told me it was given to her by her paternal grandmother, who had it from her grandmother. This takes the object back to before 1830, a date that fits well with the Regency period date given to it by an antique dealer. Unfortunately no anecdote is attached to the object.
I'd be interested to hear about your own researches into family stories, and how you either unraveled the truth, or got knotted in the details.
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Somerset / Re: Who is Cicely?
« on: Thursday 12 September 13 00:44 BST (UK) »
A Cicely Sully was buried at Luxborough on Aug 22nd 1722.
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The Common Room / Re: Bishop of Exeter's father-in-law
« on: Wednesday 21 August 13 20:36 BST (UK) »
Thanks stanmapstone. So he was the man who bought the household goods for the Duke of Somerset. I'm assuming household goods was stuff like beds and linen, cooking utensils, tables, chairs, eating utensils, pots and pans, rugs, etc?
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The Common Room / Bishop of Exeter's father-in-law
« on: Tuesday 20 August 13 18:38 BST (UK) »
Not sure where this query belongs, so plumped it here!!
In April 1585 the then Bishop of Exeter, John Woolton, was accused of various abuses of his station, including nepotism. Among the family members he was said to have promoted;
"he made his first wife's father a Minister, who had been the Duke of Somerset's cater, and a man unlearned, not having any understanding in the Latin tongue."
The Bishop answered all his accusation, and touching on his father-in-law, said
"I did not make my former father-in-law minister; he being admitted ten years before I was bishop. He is not of my diocese, nor had his benefice of me. I have heard he hath been of better credit than this articler speaketh: and that he hath been a harbourer of godly men in their trouble: and is at this day a grave, honest, and godly old man. God will one day give sentence upon all impenitent slanderers."
I do not know who John Woolton's first wife was (their daughter was my ancestress) so I wondered how I might find out about her father.
What did the job of 'cater' involve? Is it like today's 'caterer' - providing food, and sometimes entertainment, for the household? The Duke of Somerset mentioned has to be Edward Seymour
who was 1st Duke of Somerset 1547-1552 (the title was then forfeited). Somerset's residence was Syon House in West London. Would there be household accounts still extant that might mention this position?
John Woolton was made Bishop of Exeter in 1579. So his father-in-law was ordained in c.1569. Are there any records that list the ordained ministers in any particular year?
Any help in following up these interesting, but rather vague, clues would be much appreciated.
In April 1585 the then Bishop of Exeter, John Woolton, was accused of various abuses of his station, including nepotism. Among the family members he was said to have promoted;
"he made his first wife's father a Minister, who had been the Duke of Somerset's cater, and a man unlearned, not having any understanding in the Latin tongue."
The Bishop answered all his accusation, and touching on his father-in-law, said
"I did not make my former father-in-law minister; he being admitted ten years before I was bishop. He is not of my diocese, nor had his benefice of me. I have heard he hath been of better credit than this articler speaketh: and that he hath been a harbourer of godly men in their trouble: and is at this day a grave, honest, and godly old man. God will one day give sentence upon all impenitent slanderers."
I do not know who John Woolton's first wife was (their daughter was my ancestress) so I wondered how I might find out about her father.
What did the job of 'cater' involve? Is it like today's 'caterer' - providing food, and sometimes entertainment, for the household? The Duke of Somerset mentioned has to be Edward Seymour
who was 1st Duke of Somerset 1547-1552 (the title was then forfeited). Somerset's residence was Syon House in West London. Would there be household accounts still extant that might mention this position?
John Woolton was made Bishop of Exeter in 1579. So his father-in-law was ordained in c.1569. Are there any records that list the ordained ministers in any particular year?
Any help in following up these interesting, but rather vague, clues would be much appreciated.
7
Devon / Re: Topsham Exeter - residence address location
« on: Saturday 17 August 13 14:56 BST (UK) »
Hello again. I had an unplanned look myself at the 1911 Census. The sequence as it appears in the census for the households is;
Gillings ...Clara Place (no number given on record)
Saunders 8 Clara Place
Drew ...Clara Place (no number given)
Vinnicombe 6 Clara Place
Gale 5 Clara Place
Selley ...Clara Place (no number given)
West 3 Clara Place (yes - my ancestors - I got the date wrong in my post)
George 2 Clara Place
Goodyer 1 Clara Place
So it looks like your relatives lived at No.9 Clara Place.
The enumeration sequence goes from Ferry Road, up one side of Follett Road, then back down the other side. Clara Place is numbered on the way back down, hence the numbering is in reverse order. No.9 would therefore be the first house from the High Street end (i.e. on the right). This fits in with me having been told that No.3 was on the left.
Gillings ...Clara Place (no number given on record)
Saunders 8 Clara Place
Drew ...Clara Place (no number given)
Vinnicombe 6 Clara Place
Gale 5 Clara Place
Selley ...Clara Place (no number given)
West 3 Clara Place (yes - my ancestors - I got the date wrong in my post)
George 2 Clara Place
Goodyer 1 Clara Place
So it looks like your relatives lived at No.9 Clara Place.
The enumeration sequence goes from Ferry Road, up one side of Follett Road, then back down the other side. Clara Place is numbered on the way back down, hence the numbering is in reverse order. No.9 would therefore be the first house from the High Street end (i.e. on the right). This fits in with me having been told that No.3 was on the left.
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Devon / Re: Topsham Exeter - residence address location
« on: Friday 16 August 13 21:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks GrantGen. From the reference its either the whole of Clara Place was numbered 15 Follett Rd, or their particular house within Clara Place was no.15.
I don't know if this is a useful or practical suggestion, or one you've already tried, but you could relook at the census and note the sequence of everyone listed in Clara Place, and work out where Chas & Charlotte appear in the order. For example, if Clara Place is numbered 13-21 then you know their residence is the third house within the square. But you won't know which side to start from, of course! You'll have to see the whole of Follett Road to work out if the numbers started from the High Street end or from the estuary.
I don't know if this is a useful or practical suggestion, or one you've already tried, but you could relook at the census and note the sequence of everyone listed in Clara Place, and work out where Chas & Charlotte appear in the order. For example, if Clara Place is numbered 13-21 then you know their residence is the third house within the square. But you won't know which side to start from, of course! You'll have to see the whole of Follett Road to work out if the numbers started from the High Street end or from the estuary.
9
Somerset / Re: Shepton mallet churchyard
« on: Friday 16 August 13 21:38 BST (UK) »
Sorry to disappoint, genie50. There were a couple dozens stones that were totally unreadable, and one to "Eliza daughter of Wm & Ann..." (surname and date illegible). What dates were your relatives buried. If late enough they could be in the cemetery? Do you have any other Shepton relatives?
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