Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - BritVic

Pages: [1] 2
1
Lancashire / Re: Walton Park Cemetery, Liverpool
« on: Tuesday 17 April 18 11:51 BST (UK)  »
Although this cemetery was closed in 1948 for reasons of "no further capacity" there certainly were 'new' burials that took place as recently as the 1970's.
May I suggest that you join the Liverpool Family History forum and post details (name,date etc) from the Death Cert. for whom you seek.
I have access to unavailable records for this site and will be more able to help you from there.

https://www.lswlfhs.org.uk/
Vic

2
World War One / Re: Matthew Baker Kings Liverpool regiment no. 241645
« on: Tuesday 13 December 16 17:52 GMT (UK)  »
Very many thanks Jim, Pretty much as I had perceived it from the War Diaries and E H G Roberts accounts of the event.Your Diagram makes it a lot clearer and well defined. Much appreciated.  :)

3
World War One / Re: Matthew Baker Kings Liverpool regiment no. 241645
« on: Tuesday 13 December 16 11:32 GMT (UK)  »
The Diary of Fred Paterson covers 28th July 1917 at the front waiting for the German Shells to cease before their assault over the top on 1st August 1917 perhaps was killed by shell shrapnel on 31st July 1917 before the assault.

Alamo
I find this statement rather confusing,please correct me if I am wrong in my interpretation of this comment, but the battle for Pilckem ridge (The first assault ?) took place on 31st July 1917 and kicked off at 03:50 A.M, I thought that all the 'Kingsmen'Btns as part of the 55th were in it from the git go, or certainly by 07:30.
I lost (without trace) a number of relatives from the 1/9th KLR on that day and am desperately trying my best to determine an accurate timeline of their movements so that I might retrace their steps one day soon. All help towards that achievement would be very much appreciated.
I am already aware of K.Lees very valuable contributions through his 9th KLR website Thanks.

4
Lancashire / Re: Walton Park Cemetery, Liverpool
« on: Monday 25 April 16 23:09 BST (UK)  »
Thank you for your interest C and for your observations,although you will appreciate that a much deeper understanding is required to answer the question that most people have asked here, "where exactly is my ancestor buried"?

You will also appreciate that this is indeed an old "thread" and as such masks a considerable amount of work that has been done in the meantime.
I can say that I am now fairly confident I can determine the whereabouts of about 85% of those listed in the on line registers that are available.
What no one can hope to do is restore the past neglect of the place and like you said, a large area of the site is now 'woodland' with huge feral trees and shrubs occupying a considerable amount of the Southern end of the site, thus making access to some areas extremely difficult, most especially in summer.
There is still a lot to do and presently I am trying to decipher "re-location" registers and M.I records.
There is much to learn of what went on in there over the years.

5
Lancashire Lookup Requests / Re: Burial Record St Nicholas Church Liverpool
« on: Sunday 17 April 16 11:27 BST (UK)  »
Hi, Having studied this cemetery,its history and its layout for my own purposes, I believe I can give you an idea of what and where you are looking for.
All entries in the registers that are available will be in either a 'paid' or an 'Unpaid for' register.
An "unpaid for" is more indicative of the very early years of the cemeteries existence.
That is to say the era 1856 -1895 when most 'public' burials took place at the Southern end of the site and were afforded by the Parish or "Guardians".
From about 1894 onwards there were two areas defined and allocated as being "public" areas at the Northern end of the site. Sadly it has to be said that these areas have also been subjected to much disruption since the 1940's and at least 60% of one such public area has been developed into housing by none other than the UK government in the guise of Her Majesties Prison Service, apparently breaking their own rules on development of such sensitive areas ?
 
It was the method of gravediggers in those days to follow a grid pattern, and so they would begin at a chosen corner of a field and would excavate what would be an ongoing trench to a depth of 8 feet minimum and in a straight line, this initial trench would be nominated as "A" and the first 6 foot of its length would become grave number 1 etc, ad infinitum.
Each would be backfilled in the order of (usually) two 'full grown' adults, followed by up to four junior adults (aged over 7years),and last would be infants and newborns. This would progress slowly along the chosen direction and each 'position' might take weeks to achieve the required 'density' of cadavers before it is finally "closed". A close study of the registers for some years especially around the early 20th Century reveals a very high infant mortality rate due to pandemics and disease and can account for as many as 32 names bearing the same grave reference number !

So to summarise, the reference number (O - 21)and date that you have can not get you to an exact location but could be approximated within 5-10 metres during a visit.
10/- of old £.s.d was the cost of burying an 'adult' (defined as being 7 years of age or older)and covered the simple wooden coffin and the gravediggers wages.
In 1911 this was just about affordable for most families and avoided the social stigma of being buried a "pauper" (There is no official classification of a paupers grave by the way).
It must be said that Cg does indeed indicate a 'common' grave and in most cases within this cemetery will have no visible identity whatsoever.
The Southern end of the site has given way to well established dense woodland now and is almost impossible to penetrate in some areas during the summer months.
Severe vandalism after its abandonment in the late 1960's also destroyed many memorials that did exist in those areas where they were afforded and where proper Section and Grave numbers were allocated and recorded.
BTW I believe it may have been my thread on Liverpool&SWLancs FHS forum that Victoria refers to!

6
Lancashire / Re: Henrietta Lancaster also Yates (nee Ellison)
« on: Tuesday 03 February 15 22:30 GMT (UK)  »
It is very difficult to find a grave when there are no surviving members of family to tell where they lie.
Cant help with that but it is worth noting that she is listed under both Surnames you have given in the GRO indices and it is also worth bearing in m ind that the death was registered in Liverpool Sth.
Walton Parochial Cemetery closed its doors to new burials in 1948 and most were then taken to either Ford (R/C) or Anfield (all).

7
Lancashire / Re: Walton Park Cemetery, Liverpool
« on: Sunday 06 April 14 10:08 BST (UK)  »
In the meantime while our project is underway. There is an interested group of local historians who have  collected a vast wealth of general knowledge about the site and produced a very interesting 70 page booklet which is being made available through the farm itself or via their own website :-

http://waltononthehill.wix.com/liverpool#!publications/c5q5





8
Lancashire / Re: Walton Park Cemetery, Liverpool
« on: Friday 28 March 14 12:01 GMT (UK)  »
With regard to Walton Parochial Cemetery, Liverpool, now operating as Rice Lane City Farm. I work at the farm and would refer you to my FaceBook page 'Rice Lane City Farm - A Personal collection of Photos and Videos.' If you scan down the page you will come across a hand drawn map showing the present layout of the farm/cemetery. There is also a lot of info about the farm/cemetery on the web - Robert Noonan aka Robert Tressell auther of the Ragged Trousered Philanthropist, James Carling, illustrator for Edgar Allen Poe and Ernest Freeman of the Titanic are some of the well-known people buried at the cemetery.

With regard to locating graves, we provide whatever assistance we can, but we are severely limited by a lack of available information. To my knowledge, the original plans and demarcations for the cemetery were detroyed during the second world war bombings.
I believe the cemetery was deconsecreted in the 1970's, but because there are still family graves in use, burials have taken place after that time - The last burial was in 2009.
Incidently, the entrance to the cemetery is via the Rawcliffe Road Gate. The rear Dove Gate entrance on Hornby Road is kept locked for security reason - Don't park on Hornby Road, outside of Walton Prison as any vehicles parked there are regularly broken into.
Due to the difficulty in tracing graves it is strongly advised to phone with whatever info you have before visiting the farm. I am happy to report that we have helped people from across the world with locating graves at the farm. I am also happy to take photos of any grave located and e.mail them to interested persons. You can contact me via the farm on 0151 530 1066, ask for Kevin.

To whomever this may concern !

KEVI is no longer associated with the City Farm and any attempts to utilise his services as above will prove futile.
All is not lost however, there are moves afoot to rectify some of the neglect and maladministration of this site and its records. As of March 2014 an attempt has been made by some members of the Liverpool & S W Lancs FHS & others to interpret the remaining registers against the actual layout of the grounds and in due course,(hopefully this Summer),there will be a much better understanding and improved accessibility to those areas.
However it still has to be pointed out that most of the 'common' grave burials will be completely unmarked and will probably be no more than a patch of grass.
At the very least we are hoping that you might be able to see that exact grass patch for yourself when the project is finished ?

9
Lancashire / Re: Burial at Walton Park Cemetery, Liverpool - COLLINS
« on: Wednesday 12 March 14 22:34 GMT (UK)  »
They will not have much success Blue. I know to my cost.
Myself and MaryA have collated a considerable number of maps/dox from far and wide concerning this site and we are hoping soon to be able to find all of the known and marked graves and possibly put GPS ref points to them on a sensible OS map. I will then try and match those known plots to the register in the LRO and see if we can find some form of logic or reason to this puzzle ? Its a longshot but its the best we can hope for and at least we should get a decent map into the public domain,and not just for the Robert Tressel monument ? I'm only hoping that we can access the paths before the serious lambing season begins and the stinging nettles arent too well established.

Pages: [1] 2