RootsChat.Com

Hi Christine

Thank you for the link.  When I was originally writing here that file was not open.  When I looked at it this evening i could not believe it!  The negative of his i/d photo is so badly damaged that there is not even a hint of an image.  How elusive can one man get?

Thank you also for drawing my attention back to this post -- I see that I have received a message nearly a year ago and have not replied.

AND

Hi Tracy

I must begin by apologising for not have seen or replied to your message earlier.   
 
I'm related through the Smiths, but Ella was my great aunt by marriage as well as being a blood relation on the other side on my mother's family (weird, but nothing inappropriate).

My Dening section of the family tree is a bit sparce, but I'm sure I can help you out with the rest of the Smiths.  I would love to be able to see if we can exchange information and help each other out.  Are you on any online family tree sites through which we could communicate less publicly?

Cheers

Hi Robin,

I am not actually a member of the Wade family -- I have been undertaking this research for my cousins.  My aunt married Bert Wade, so he was my uncle by marriage.  He was the youngest child of Robert Allen Wade, who was the son of William Wade, the fifth child of William Wade and Mary Peacock.

Cheers,
Jestina

It does seem that people used to have a much less fixed idea about their names than we do now, so it is no surprise that Ann would use her birth surname and her stepfather's surname in a way that seems pretty random to us.  On one branch of my tree we had the same situation, with the mother's surname on the birth records more or less alternating between Duncan and Sturm.  It was only by going back a generation that we found one was her birth name and the other was her stepfather's.

Are you descended from Ann?

I look forward to hearing more from you when you are able.

Cheers,
Jestina

Hi John,

I too am in Adelaide, but I am not actually a member of the Williams family.  My aunt married a Williams, and two generations later, so did my niece.  My niece's father-in-law assured me that they were related, but my curiosity was piqued, and I decided to investigate.  It turns out that my aunt's husband was descended from Jabez Williams, the fourth child of John Williams and his second wife, Sarah Waitman, while my niece's husband is a descendant of James Williams, the second son of John Williams and his first wife, Elizabeth Bennett. 

Because it's not my own family I don't have all the details and relationships in my head and it's a long time since I have looked at it, so I need to get it sorted in my mind.

The 1851 UK Census (taken on the night of 30 March 1851), shows that John Williams was born c.1805 in Wrotham, Kent.  (ref: UK Census 1851, Public Record Office Reference HO107, Piece 1612, Folio 569, Page 12, Registration District: Malling, Civil Parish: Wrotham, Address: Beech Wood Platt, Crouch, Wrotham, County: Kent.) 

However, John’s great great grand-daughter, Elva Dickinson, nee Williams, researched the Williams Family History and says that John was born at Brynmrwr, Monmouth, Wales, but she does not give her source for this information.  Two trees on RootsWeb.com also state that he has born in 1807 in Monmouthshire, Wales, but neither gives a source. 

Williams is usually regarded as a Welsh surname, and I remember starting to suspect that John's father might have moved from Wales to Kent, but that's not much help because I can't remember how or why I thought that, and can't see that I made any notes about it (which indicates that is was a suspicion rather than a firm belief).

It is important to note that Elva's approach to family history research is very different from mine.  The huge tree she put together was created by gathering information and oral history from family members.  I was able to borrow a copy of her tree (in hard copy), and although I found it to be an incredibly useful guide, I have included nothing in mine that cannot be verified by primary sources.

I have notes that two baby boys named John Williams were baptised at Wrotham around the right time to be "our" John:
one, the son of John and Elizabeth, on 3 July 1802, (source: http://www.findmypast.co.uk – Parish Records Collection baptism – Record Source: Wrotham baptisms 1558-1812; Kent FHS Ref: 6498; Record source: Kent Baptisms; Data provider: Kent Family History Society), and
the other, the son of James and Elizabeth, on 10 November 1805 (source: http://www.findmypast.co.uk – Parish Records Collection baptism – Record Source: Wrotham baptisms 1558-1812; Kent FHS Ref: 6612; Record source: Kent Baptisms; Data provider: Kent Family History Society). 

Of the two, this second one seems somewhat more likely to be "our" John, but the two births are too close together for the baptism records alone to tell us which is the right one.  It is also possible that "our" John Williams was baptised somewhere else; or that the relevant baptism register is not currently available online; or that it has been lost, damaged or destroyed in the two centuries since John was born.

I also have a question: do you know what happened to John's third and fourth sons, John, born c.1832, and Thomas, born 1835?  I have been able to find baptism records for both (at Borough Green Baptist, Wrotham, Kent), but I can find nothing after their arrival in SA with most of the rest of their family aboard the "Caucasian" (Source: http://www.archives.sa.gov.au/sites/default/files/GRG35_48_1_52-4_Caucasian.pdf)   

cheers,
Jestina

Thank you for checking Teddygreen1

I guess if a church-going family had girl triplets Faith, Hope and Charity was the default position for names.

Cheers,
Jestina