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Messages - draitt

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1
Other Countries / Re: The Croal Family of Guiana
« on: Sunday 07 April 13 12:54 BST (UK)  »
It was very likely John Croal's younger brother Robert Croal, born in Arbroath in September 1794, also a master mariner, who was master of the Swift on her last voyage, when she was run down by the brig Robert off Flamborough Head in early March 1815 with the loss of all crew and passengers.

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Other Countries / Re: The Croal Family of Guiana
« on: Monday 25 March 13 18:43 GMT (UK)  »
Even a bit more! Gravestone 199 in Barry has Alex Croal, Mary Park and many of their family members. If you don't have all these dates, then I can send them.....

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Other Countries / Re: The Croal Family of Guiana
« on: Monday 25 March 13 18:34 GMT (UK)  »
Bit more for your tree. Gravestone 995 in Arbroath Abbey gives John Croal, mason, d 3.1825; wife Isobell Whitton, d 21.3.1822 aged 64 (which dates you have, of course); but also daughter Mary, d 9.11.1862 (husband John Steele) and their daughter Isabella, b 13.11.1840, d 1.3.1841. 

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Other Countries / Re: The Croal Family of Guiana
« on: Monday 25 March 13 15:14 GMT (UK)  »
OK - here are a couple of things. I have found your Alexander Croal (m Mary Park) in the 1861 census - he and his daughter Mary W. are in Dundee St, Barry - under Croall - he is retired. (But maybe you have that and just haven't put it in your tree).

Now I may have found the birth of Isobel Whitton - there was one baptized on 20 Dec 1759 in Barry. Her parents were James Whitton and Agnes Small and there abode was in Whinny-hall, parish of Monikie. (ditto about the tree).

How sure are you of the dob of John Croal in 1765? Isobel would be some six years older than him, which might be a bit unusual. By the way John was a mason by trade.

Now there was a John Croll baptized on 5 Apr 1758 (which would make him more Isobel's age) in Arbroath to James Croll and Mary Petrie (one witness was David Petrie who could be her father or brother perhaps). Now, they also had several other children, one of whom was named Alexander who was baptized on 7 July 1760 (David Petrie was a witness).

What I like about this family is that if this John is your earliest John, then my earliest Alexander Croal, ship master and father of my gg uncle Alexander Croal born 18 Jan 1801, could be his brother (who married Jean Laurance). I'll see if I can dig up anything else on this.

As it stands at the moment, my first Alexander and his son Alexander who married Susan Raitt (and drowned in 1875), do not appear to be otherwise related to your Croals unless my speculation above is possible.

Now, turning to the master mariner side. As I mentioned earlier, I have come across various certificates of competency of Alexander Croal. Looking at them more closely, I think that records may have got muddled and are incomplete. The master's certificate does belong to my Alexander Croal I believe because even though the year is incorrect, the actual date of birth is correct - and you might remember your day rather than the year perhaps! Records of service also tie up. The certificate was granted in 1851 - yet there was an announcement in a London paper that Alexander Croal had passed his master's exams in London in 1850 and he was second mate on the Palmyr of London. Other records I found for justification relate to the Palmyr of Liverpool as well as London. Since your AC's family was in London in 1851, then this fits - especially as children were born in Liverpool.

I also note from your tree that the Hon John Croal was the owner of a plantation called Palmyra. I wonder whether he was the owner of the vessel that AC was aboard? John may also have been a ship's captain because in the late 1830s and 1840s the ship Palmyra was regularly plying between  London and Demerara (as well as elsewhere) under master Croal (and this presumably can't be Alexander if he didn't get his master's certificate until 1850. I will follow up on this if you like. 

Ah well, all good stuff!

Regards

David

 

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Other Countries / Re: The Croal Family of Guiana
« on: Sunday 24 March 13 16:50 GMT (UK)  »
I came across this discussion whilst looking for a different Alexander Croal, born Jan 1801 in Arbroath. In the 1871 census for Barry, there is an AC, born 1803 (actually May 1902), who is a retired ship master with daughter Mary W. In 1881 he is there with daughter Mary Weir MacQorcadell and family. I was trying to find whether this AC was related to my AC who was also a master mariner. I had found the master mariner certificates of competency and the ships served on for Alexander Croal, but it gave his date of birth as 18 Jan 1802 instead of 1801, but since the other AC was born May 1802 and had a daughter born in London (where one of them took their master's exams while second mate aboard the Palmyr of London), then I was thinking that perhaps the certificates were those of the other ("your") AC rather than mine!

Reading further down the posts, I came across the very recent posting of Gareth1971 and I believe the similarity of names has possibly caused confusion. The Alexander Croal who was drowned in the wreck of the Lawton off Fidra on 29 Nov 1875 aged 75 was indeed the husband of Susan Raitt (sister to my gg grandfather John Raitt). However, they had no children, and his parents were Alexander Croal (also a ship master - died before 1839) and Jean Laurance (abt 1764-March 1839).

On the birth extract for "my" Alexander Croal, born 1801, one of the witnesses was given as John Croal - but whether this is baby's grandfather or a brother or other relative of Alexander, father of the baby Alex, I have not yet ascertained.

The Captain Alexander Croal mentioned by Gareth was indeed the son of John Croal and Isobel Witton and was born on 3 May 1802 in Arbroath. And it may be that this John is the witness mentioned above.

I have had a look at the family tree pdf from rnewfie and I am not sure of a link yet between the two Alexander Croals both born in Arbroath within a year or so of each other. I do have some stuff up on my Raitt family history site about AC, but am in the process of uploading more on the wreck of the Lawton. And I do have in my master file his various siblings (i.e. children of Alexander Croal/Jean Laurance). And I'm happy to provide or check what I can for you.

Regards

David Raitt

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