RootsChat.Com

Hello,

Do you have matches with the Allisons of Tyrone, Schuyler county, New York, USA, who descend from Thomas Allison and Margaret Clark (1700s)? They hailed from Castlederg area where their children born, but he apparently from Greenock, Scot. originally. I have matches with these folk, which would be via the Sproule connection. Their son James Allison married Elizabeth Sproul(e) in the 1790s, and I have Sproule ancestry from Grennan, Dromore, Tyrone.

Jamie Reid

Thanks. Of course, while the Witters in those earlier generations that I mentioned did stay in Cheshire, some of them could have had descendants who later moved to Lancashire as the 19th century progressed.

Jamie Reid

Thanks Rob. Yes, I agree, James is different from the others. Either he is an uncle, or perhaps he is a half brother, the son of John's first wife (if he had one) and the informant to his death certificate, James' son James, was incorrect in naming his grandfather as James (rather than John). This seems odd, particularly given that it is the paternal grandfather, but I think I've seen that in other families where the name is known with certainty retrospectively and the informants erred.

The only birth record I have is that for John Hamilton in 1810. (Are there any others? I could not find any for his siblings.) In the parish register of Keir, Dumfries-shire, "29 March a son of John Hamilton & Anna Scott in Winsover named John". The parish of Keir is in Nithsdale. Windsover is a short distance southwest of Auldgirth Bridge and can be seen here http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=284500&y=590500&z=120&sv=Keir&st=3&tl=Map+of+Keir+Hills,+Dumfries+and+Galloway+[Hill/Mountain]&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf or here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.155916,-3.7208389,3a,75y,346.66h,80.72t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sto1CrANubiowJiSnmcnr7w!2e0?hl=en .

I do wonder if there would be any records of that farm that would show a change of tenancy historically, which could help us track the Hamilton family. It is odd that they don't seem to appear in the parish records much.

Back to James' (b. 1791) parentage. We know that his first son was James and his second daughter was Elizabeth. On the other side of the family, brothers George and John (sons of John and Anna) both had first sons John, which we know to be the name of their paternal grandfather, and second daughters Anne, the name of their paternal grandmother. It doesn't prove anything, but if we say that James was using the same pattern, then he is the son of James (matching the death record) and Elizabeth. This would suggest he is an uncle rather than half-brother. We also know that James' wife, Marion Callender, was the daughter of James and Grace ("Grizel"). James and Marion's first daughter was Grace, indicating perhaps they followed the pattern.

I would love to find more information on this family further back but they are proving elusive!

Jamie Reid

I will check on the Noice surname bit.

For all interested in the Hamiltons, here is some interesting information. I have in my possession the autobiography of my great-great grandfather, Thomas Smith (1836-1920) of Elma township, Perth county, Ontario. His wife was Ellen Hamilton (1844-1912), daughter of John Hamilton (1810-1887) and Joan Bryden (1807-1879). In Thomas Smith's autobiography of c. 1915, he includes some information on his wife's family, and notes that John Hamilton of Peebles had two older brothers, James and George, and a sister Ellen (namesake of his wife). He states that Ellen was married to a "Spaulding" although I have not been able to find any such record. (There is the possibility that this part of the autobiography (and "Spaulding") suffered from mis-transcription - only the typewritten version survives from the 1960s, whereas the original hand-written copy was accidentally destroyed in the 1990s by a relative in whose possession it had come to rest.)

Thus Thomas Smith was not aware of the older sisters of John Hamilton (Jane Ferguson and Margaret Muir Charters) as they were not in Peebles when Ellen Hamilton (1844-1912) was a little girl before moving to Canada in 1854 with her parents. But their relationship is confirmed from the Australian death registers.

This shows that older brother James was certainly perceived as a brother of John (1810-1887) by his daughter Ellen who would have known James when she was a little girl in Peebles. However, I'm starting to wonder if this James Hamilton (c.1791-1870) was maybe a half brother, given that there seems to be a large gap between him and Jane (born c.1802). Another possibility is that he was actually a generation further up, a younger brother of John Hamilton, husband of Anna Scott.

This James married Marion Callendar in 1820, and the entry from Edinburgh parish is as follows:
"Jas Hamilton mason St. Cutht parish & Marion Callender New Greyfriars, d. of James Callender book seller Dalkeith".

Thus all siblings seem to have left the place of their birth and moved. James was in Peebles by 1821 at the time of the birth of his daughter Grace. Perhaps George followed his older brother, leading him to settle there by 1827 when he married Mary Small. (In the parish register of Peebles for 1827, "George Hamilton, labourer in Peebles and Mary Small in the parish of Yarrow gave in their names to be proclaimed in order to marriage which was done once in Sunday 7 Jan. and twice on the 14th following and no objections offered.") John was in Peebles by about 1832 when he married Joan Bryden (no entry found). There was some reason they all moved to Peebles, but it could have just been because James moved there in the early 1820s - why that happened we may never know.

Any thoughts let me know!
 
Jamie Reid

The will I gave below of Thomas Robson of Chinguacousy, I now realize is of Thomas Robson, Jr.

So it is Thomas Robson the elder (1765-1841) and Thomas Robson the younger (1811-1847). Apologies for the confusion!

-- Jamie Reid