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Cork / Re: HYMES in Cork City, Cork
« on: Sunday 17 February 13 14:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi Miles
We may be related! Or maybe not. If only we had a time machine to take us back to the 1830s.
I have found the grave of an Eliza Hyams in St. Kilda Melbourne. She is definitely my relative. On the head stone it is written in hebrew (but faded) daughter of "r" (this might mean rabbi?) Shl??? and wife of Shmuel (Samuel) ... the Shl??? may very well be Shlomo, the hebrew for Solomon. She is burried with Samuel Henry Cohen, and they share the same head stone. He is also my relative.
The head stone dates seem to match your story. Eliza died 18 February 1881 aged 57. This means she was born in 1823 / 1824. Given your Solomon re-married in 1818 and then had 3 kids with Eliza third, the timing indicates a 1823 or 1824 birthdate as a real possibility. If as the theory goes that Solomon and Eliza came out on the Lady McNaughton in 1836, then Eliza would have been 12 or 13 at that time and it would have made sense that she travel with her father.
Do you have a ship's passenger list? I don't yet! A copy exists as a Xerox in the NSW State Records for Miscellaneous Assisted Immigrants 1828-1843 (COD112 at MLA1267-15 pp.223-72).
My family legend (with no proof) was that our Eliza was born in Ireland. We have been trying to identify her father. Our options were Michael the Mohel of Sydney, Joseph the Convict (which interestingly enough helped us stumble across and dismiss Joseph the umbrella maker, who is now possibly her half brother according to your account) and now through you to Solomon his father, a search we had never done until we stumbled upon your post which seems to connect some dots.
The reason we had not stumbled on Solomon was we were searching for Hyams not Hymes - and if Solomon is the right father, we wonder when the name changed - in Ireland or on landing here? It is only since we found her grave last week that we have started to research Shlomo / Solomon.
I would be keen to share our documented proof of Eliza's family tree right through to today if you are interested ... assuming that she is YOUR Eliza! And we cannot be 100% sure despite the dates and stories seeming to match. Of course what we need to find is more documented proof.
What raises some serious doubts is that there appears to be 2 Eliza Hyams at the same time and both married to a Samuel Cohen! Or perhaps some inaccuracies in recorded "history" in books.
There is Eliza Hyams according to the book (if accurate) "The Jews of Ireland ... to 1910" (Hyman, 1972) who married Samuel, son of Henry and Caroline Cohen of Plymouth. This is definitely not our Eliza. According to the book that Eliza also had 2 sisters who also came to Australia in or around 1840 - Sarah and Esther. Your family history includes a half sister Sarah and an unknown younger half sister - perhaps Sally. So we cannot rule out that your family was related to this Eliza and not our Eliza. Either the book is inaccurate on two key points OR there were 2 Elizas here!
Our Eliza married Samuel Henry Cohen, son of Henry and Elizabeth Cohen. Henry Cohen was a wealthy businessman in London and sent as a convict to Australia - a well documented history.
The things that seem to connect some dots to say we share the same Eliza:
- Family folklore claiming Irish roots
- The Shl??? on our Eliza's new found grave stone possibly being Shlomo (Solomon)
- The 1818 marriage date of Solomon and Susan
- Eliza Hymes birth being between 1823 / 1824 based on her death 18 February, 1881 at age 57.
- dates for Michael Hyams the Mohel and Joseph Hyams not matching our Eliza's dates very well
Anything you have that might connect some more dots would be really helpful.
Ships log of passengers?
Birth certificates :-)
Solomon's will?
Thanks
Simon
We may be related! Or maybe not. If only we had a time machine to take us back to the 1830s.
I have found the grave of an Eliza Hyams in St. Kilda Melbourne. She is definitely my relative. On the head stone it is written in hebrew (but faded) daughter of "r" (this might mean rabbi?) Shl??? and wife of Shmuel (Samuel) ... the Shl??? may very well be Shlomo, the hebrew for Solomon. She is burried with Samuel Henry Cohen, and they share the same head stone. He is also my relative.
The head stone dates seem to match your story. Eliza died 18 February 1881 aged 57. This means she was born in 1823 / 1824. Given your Solomon re-married in 1818 and then had 3 kids with Eliza third, the timing indicates a 1823 or 1824 birthdate as a real possibility. If as the theory goes that Solomon and Eliza came out on the Lady McNaughton in 1836, then Eliza would have been 12 or 13 at that time and it would have made sense that she travel with her father.
Do you have a ship's passenger list? I don't yet! A copy exists as a Xerox in the NSW State Records for Miscellaneous Assisted Immigrants 1828-1843 (COD112 at MLA1267-15 pp.223-72).
My family legend (with no proof) was that our Eliza was born in Ireland. We have been trying to identify her father. Our options were Michael the Mohel of Sydney, Joseph the Convict (which interestingly enough helped us stumble across and dismiss Joseph the umbrella maker, who is now possibly her half brother according to your account) and now through you to Solomon his father, a search we had never done until we stumbled upon your post which seems to connect some dots.
The reason we had not stumbled on Solomon was we were searching for Hyams not Hymes - and if Solomon is the right father, we wonder when the name changed - in Ireland or on landing here? It is only since we found her grave last week that we have started to research Shlomo / Solomon.
I would be keen to share our documented proof of Eliza's family tree right through to today if you are interested ... assuming that she is YOUR Eliza! And we cannot be 100% sure despite the dates and stories seeming to match. Of course what we need to find is more documented proof.
What raises some serious doubts is that there appears to be 2 Eliza Hyams at the same time and both married to a Samuel Cohen! Or perhaps some inaccuracies in recorded "history" in books.
There is Eliza Hyams according to the book (if accurate) "The Jews of Ireland ... to 1910" (Hyman, 1972) who married Samuel, son of Henry and Caroline Cohen of Plymouth. This is definitely not our Eliza. According to the book that Eliza also had 2 sisters who also came to Australia in or around 1840 - Sarah and Esther. Your family history includes a half sister Sarah and an unknown younger half sister - perhaps Sally. So we cannot rule out that your family was related to this Eliza and not our Eliza. Either the book is inaccurate on two key points OR there were 2 Elizas here!
Our Eliza married Samuel Henry Cohen, son of Henry and Elizabeth Cohen. Henry Cohen was a wealthy businessman in London and sent as a convict to Australia - a well documented history.
The things that seem to connect some dots to say we share the same Eliza:
- Family folklore claiming Irish roots
- The Shl??? on our Eliza's new found grave stone possibly being Shlomo (Solomon)
- The 1818 marriage date of Solomon and Susan
- Eliza Hymes birth being between 1823 / 1824 based on her death 18 February, 1881 at age 57.
- dates for Michael Hyams the Mohel and Joseph Hyams not matching our Eliza's dates very well
Anything you have that might connect some more dots would be really helpful.
Ships log of passengers?
Birth certificates :-)
Solomon's will?
Thanks
Simon